 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: anotherasianclarinetist
Date: 2018-12-02 17:24
Attachment: s-l1600.jpg (293k)
Attachment: s-l1600 (1).jpg (185k)
Attachment: s-l1600 (4).jpg (170k)
Attachment: s-l1600 (3).jpg (203k)
I chanced upon a 1981 buffet R13 selling at 1,700 US dollars (images attached).
Is this a worthwhile deal?
I don't have the opportunity to try it.
It's nickel plated, but I plan to replate it with silver if I buy it.
As according to the images, would there be any problems with the wood or tuning? I heard somewhere that older buffet clarinets might have a big bore (but searching online doesn't mention this happening on the R13).
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Author: m1964
Date: 2018-12-02 19:56
Clarineteer wrote:
> Are you aware that this is in the key of A and not a Bb?
How did you know that?!
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Author: m1964
Date: 2018-12-02 19:56
Clarineteer wrote:
> Are you aware that this is in the key of A and not a Bb?
How did you know that?!
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2018-12-02 20:01
The best advice is do not buy from anyone who says they "do not accept returns." If you're looking for a good clarinet pitched in A (not Bb) and this one is in that pitch, it could be a fine old instrument at a decent price (though it may need overhauling to play at its best); but you will never know for sure unless you can have at least a few days to try it and decide if you want to keep or return it. If returns are not allowed, then you could also be stuck with a lemon. Old Buffets like this range from delightful to unspeakably bad. Find out where in that possible range of quality this one falls before you commit to buy and keep it.
Personally, I would try to bargain to get the price a few hundred dollars lower.
Post Edited (2018-12-03 03:37)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2018-12-03 00:21
"Are you aware that this is in the key of A and not a Bb?"
"How did you know that?!"
Look at the double case for the first and probably the most obvious clue - the instrument is in the section with the longer compartments compared to the empty compartments on the right. Compare the length of the lower joint which fills out the entire section in the case - a Bb lower joint won't do that in a double case.
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/download.html/1,6129/s-l1600.jpg
Next compare it to a known photo of a Bb clarinet of the same make and model if there's nothing else to go on - you'll notice the tonehole spacing and lengths of keys are different. Even when photos of both aren't to the same scale, you'll be able to notice the ratios are all different.
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/download.html/1,6132/s-l1600%20(3).jpg
You already know the serial number, so checking that on Buffet's site should give you the details of that particular instrument provided that function is still up and running.
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/download.html/1,6130/s-l1600%20(1).jpg
It may be a nice A clarinet, but then again it could be a dud - I know some players who aren't happy with their supposedly matching A clarinet counterpart to their Bb. Someone recently bought a Vintage A to match her Bb and she's not happy with it at all as it didn't live up to the expectations. I suggested she bought a MoBa A clarinet, but she went to a different shop and bought the Buffet without trying it assuming it would be a perfect match to her Vintage Bb.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2018-12-03 02:37)
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2018-12-03 00:22
The way to tell the difference between a Bb clarinet and a key of A clarinet is the spacing is wider between the pad cup at the top of the lower joint and the first ring on the A clarinet and very close on the Bb.
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2018-12-03 16:45
Have you priced out an overhaul with replating keys. In my shop that would be very expensive.
Steve Ocone
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2018-12-03 20:59
Anderson silver plating only charges about $170.00 to silver plate a set of Bb clarinet keys.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2018-12-04 00:11
"Anderson silver plating only charges about $170.00 to silver plate a set of Bb clarinet keys."
That's only the starting point, but they still all need to be prepped first, then refitted after you get them back from being plated and the instrument refinished which is where it all gets expensive. It's alright if you can do the key refitting and finishing yourself.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2018-12-04 01:41
Silver plated sometimes effects the sound of the horn. I know this sounds weird. But some pros actually take the posts off and have the silver removed. Perhaps read up on this as you will find that most pros prefer nickel plating and Buffel sells more nickel plated horns compared to silver, but I don't know the ratio. All of my old Buffets were nickel, 16 of them. There is a difference. Although I play on Yamaha's now when I tested silver plated Buffet's there was a difference. Call me nuts, but for me the nickel was always better. So save your money. It wasn't the cost, as I can afford any clarinet made today.
As for $1700 I think you can do better. It's a 37 year old horn. By the time you silver plate it will need need pads and pretty much an overhaul so that's about $1200 with the plating. You might want to test new horns or horns like the Yamaha's which get a bad rap here because Buffet has been around for so many years. A lot of pros have switched to Yamaha's. You only have to test one or 2 and play the concert that night. You can also get a really good, much newer Buffet, but slightly used for $3000, about the price you will pay for silver plating and the overhaul. The Yamaha's I think are about $2500 new in some stores. CSVR's.
The great Harold Wright changed Buffet horns about every 10 years or less as they were blown out. So think about this before buying a 37 year old horn.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2018-12-04 12:50
Buffet haven't offered clarinets with nickel plated keys since the late '90s.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2018-12-04 13:33
Chris P wrote:
> Buffet haven't offered clarinets with nickel plated keys since
> the late '90s.
>
That's just not true. Google it. You could buy a new one right now. R13's have two price options, one with nickel plated keys and a higher one with silver.
Some prefer one plating option over the other for the feel under the fingers, with nickel being more slick. Some need to cater to allergic reactions. For me, my body chemistry causes my fingers to eat through nickel plating very quickly but silver holds up well.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2018-12-05 00:17
I worked in a music shop in the '90s where we sold Buffet clarinets and they (B&H) stopped supplying them with nickel plated keywork due to the high cases of nickel allergies. Same with Yamaha clarinets and flutes where they discontinued nickel plated variants of the student models. Also there were loads of problems with the nickel plating on Buffets wearing through very quickly as it's only applied thinly.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2018-12-05 00:23
Any idea what the thickness of the Buffet silver plating is? I assume only 2-3 microns.
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2018-12-05 00:29
Attachment: r4430.jpg (330k)
Attachment: r13eb.jpg (60k)
Their silver plate is probably between 12 and 25 microns - nickel plate was around 3 microns or less.
I've had several sets of clarinet keys plated by Buffet's platers and they had way more than the 25 microns (minimum) I specified - maybe even up to 40 microns. They did a great job and at a much lower cost than any UK silver platers could do. And the results speak for themselves (see attachment).
There was a shake-up and all Buffets from the B12 (yes it's a Schreiber) through to the RC/R13 were no longer available in nickel plate. Maybe they still offered nickel plate for the US market in the late '90s, but not in the UK or Europe.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Doug Leach
Date: 2018-12-05 00:42
Chris,
I have an R13 greenline from the fall of 2011. I bought it used about 5 years ago. It has nickel plate keys, and my skin chemistry is evidently like nellsonic's. When I got it, you could see a few places the plating was starting to become dull. Now, there are several places on various key touches where the plating is completely gone, as well as several of the rings, both upper and lower. Fortunately I'm not allergic to nickel.
Doug
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2018-12-05 09:32
>> very expensive <<
>> only charges about $170.00 <<
That's why it's relative only. $170 for the plating alone, plus all the necessary extra work that Chris P mentioned, could result in a much higher cost than without the plating. Even "just" $170 could be significantly more for many people.
>> Buffet haven't offered clarinets with nickel plated keys since the late '90s. <<
They always have and still offer them. Just Google something like "R13 nickel plated" and you will find them for sale.
>> I assume only 2-3 microns <<
>> Their silver plate is probably between 12 and 25 microns - nickel plate was around 3 microns or less. <<
I don't know what the nickel or silver plating thickness is, but whenever parts of it wear and leave patches or even peel off a little, both nickel and silver feel more than 2-3 microns thick... but I don't know. It makes sense than silver is thicker than nickel because it wears much more easily.
>> It's nickel plated <<
It might be an unusual tarnish, but the even, matte type finish looks more like unplated nickel-silver than nickel tarnish. I almost thought it was unplated for a moment, before seeing the few areas which still have plating on them. It looks like the nickel wore off almost the entire clarinet.
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2018-12-05 13:17
Hans Moennig was very unhappy when makers such as Buffet decided to start plating their keys. He said that unplated German nickel silver was superior in every way.
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