 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: John G.
Date: 2018-07-08 08:41
Attachment: Mpc.jpg (43k)
Not the greatest picture and I apologize for that, but wondering if anyone could give me a fairly certain opinion as to what brand/manufacturer this mouthpiece is in the attached picture. The most (ok, only!) identifying feature is the braided "band" around the lower portion.
Thanks!
John
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2018-07-08 10:48
Probably made by Babbitt in Indiana in the 1970's and 1980's. Model ID could be one of their generic models. Anthony Gigliotti I think used this ligature mark. Others did too.
I wish it was a better picture to view.
A few Chedevilles had this, but don't get excited it's the much later models and doesn't play like the ones in the 1940's, 1950'S and 1960's. It's only worth about $100 at the most used; as in this picture.
Gigliotti died in 2001 at 79 and I haven't really seen this marking since.
A fun logo, ligature line.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2018-07-08 23:39)
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Author: John G.
Date: 2018-07-09 19:23
Bob, that picture is a crop of a photo of Artie Shaw's clarinets at the Smithsonian. I have no idea if he actually played that mouthpiece, but since he stopped playing in mid '54, I guess it could be a '40's-early 50's Chedeville. I'm not familiar with them and their markings. I'm just curious if the brand/maker could be determined from the ornate "band" around the bottom of the mouthpiece.
Thanks for your input!
John
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Author: John G.
Date: 2018-07-10 00:25
Kenwrick, thank you! It's definitely similar, but I don't think it's exactly the same scroll work. I also have an old Otto Link "Eburnated Bar" clarinet mouthpiece from the late 30's that has a very similar scroll design.
I just emailed the full size picture to you.
Thanks much for the link/pictures!
John
Post Edited (2018-07-10 00:28)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2018-07-10 00:42
Bob Bernardo wrote:
> Probably made by Babbitt in Indiana in the 1970's and 1980's.
> Model ID could be one of their generic models. Anthony
> Gigliotti I think used this ligature mark.
No, Gigliotti mouthpieces have a chain of Gs around the mouthpiece where the top of the ligature goes. Looks similar, but not the same. And nothing around the bottom.
I think I've seen that ligature mark, though. I'll have to look when I have a chance later tonight at a couple of my older mouthpieces.
Karl
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2018-07-10 05:15
Like I said I wish it was a better picture. Thanks for the inputs. Guess we are narrowing down. Don't think Artie played on a Chedeville. Maybe someone knows.
The above Chedeville - Ch Chedeville IS the later model which is different. Although good they are not as good as the first run of Chedevilles. The big differences are the window distance are too wide compared to the very early Chedevilles. Including the rare Henri Chedeville. Also the bore is bigger on the old mouthpieces.
Hope this helps players not to send tons of money on these newer models. Buy a caliper to be sure. They are priced under $20 at Harbor Freight. You will find that the new Chedevilles are about .015" wider or more. This effects how the rails of the reeds vibrate and how the sound carries. Plus that special ping and ring. So too much of the rails vibrate. I'm sure people out there will disagree, that's fine. Buy some calipers and you will see that I'm right.
Everyone should own a few sets of calipers for reed adjustments and for finding great unmarked mouthpieces. A lot of Chedeville mouthpieces were never marked in the 1940's.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2018-07-10 05:37)
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2018-07-10 05:31
Shaw played Brillhart mouthpieces for most of his career and collaborated with Brillhart. This doesn't look like any Brillhart mouthpiece I've ever seen, but Shaw might have just put another mouthpiece on the instrument when he donated it to the museum. Always obsessed with being and having the "best" of everything (the best band, the best ratings, the best marksman, the best looking wives, the best autobiography, etc), he could have decided that Chedeville was best and the one he wanted associated with his memory in a museum, even though he didn't play that brand.
Chedeville, and Chedeville/Alelandais, in their long history, used several different varieties of scrolling, but the oval pattern of this one isn't familiar to me. Then again, there were many mouthpieces that had Chedeville-like scrolling at the bottom. Martin Freres was one.
Post Edited (2018-07-10 08:59)
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Author: John G.
Date: 2018-07-10 07:30
Absolutely concur, seabreeze. There are numerous pics of Artie that clearly show him playing on a Brilhart Ebolin, yet there are also many pics that show the mouthpiece to be missing that telltale white bite plate. If those 'pieces are just other Brilhart models, I'm not sure we'll ever know. I'm also not sure he ever actually played the Artie Shaw Model that Brilhart made for him that was sold commercially for a short time in the early 40's.
I also agree that Artie certainly could've "planted" that mouthpiece in the case with the two clarinets he donated to the Smithsonian. I wish I could go back in time and ask him point blank what mouthpieces he played on. Alas....
Thanks for the info!
John
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Author: John G.
Date: 2018-07-11 06:26
seabreeze, I know.......I have three of them. ;-)
I've had two opened up (I believe originally they're around a .044). Two of them are now between .062 and .065
I love them and they play very well for me. Yes, I only play jazz on clarinet, so don't even bother attempting to play classical on that set up! The third one I have is still original. I plan on keeping it that way.
John
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