 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Daniel Bouwmeester
Date: 2001-06-10 23:40
Hello everyone,
Having recently tried wurlitzer boehm reform clarinets of a friend (Aart Rozeboom, principal cl. of the "Orchestre de la Suisse Romande" ), I am now having doubts about the quality of french clarinets (Buffet Crampon). The buffet RC's I am playing now...are nevertheless excellent buffet RC's compared to others I have tried.
But, I need to get a new pair of clarinets. After spending a couple months trying every new clarinet arrivals from buffet to Switzerland, I have decided that I didn't want to spend more time searching, and even less want to go again to The buffet factory in Mantes and spend a week trying clarinets and decicing that 95 % of them are unplayable.
I am now quite positive into buying real artisanal clarinets from Germany (probably wurlitzer), if I can save up enough fast enough.
Before I actually start travelling in Germany for the usual trial sessions, I would like to have some feedback from those who have tried both French Boehm and German Reform Boehm systems.
Thank you for any potential replies
DAn
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Author: William
Date: 2001-06-11 00:27
Also, with regard to your observation about the 95% being "unplayable," that is probably a result of Buffet having not properly "set up" the clarinets which you tried at the factory. Often, most of those "unplayables" can be made excellant in he hands of a master clarinet technician. I had the same experiance at Libertyville, Ill. USA a few years ago searching for the "perfect" A. They all played like they had been assembled in the dark and play-tested (if at all) in a vacume by the hearing-impaired. Much different experiance at LeBlanc in Kenosha, where T. Ridenour went out of his way to make all necessary adjustments to the instruments I tried. Sorry I can't address our original question, but just thought I might add thought of my own--hope it helps and good luck.
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Author: kny
Date: 2001-06-11 02:52
Wurlitzer is not the only producer of reform clarinets. Some other manufacturers also manufactur them. They include Yamaha ( who reversed engineered the Wurlitzer reform clarinets I think), Schwenk and Seggelke and other manufacturers. They should be cheaper then the "original" Wurlitzer
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Author: Daniel Bouwmeester
Date: 2001-06-11 09:36
William,
It's true that a good technician can do very good things on an instrument. I've got myself a friend who makes special key systems for important soloists and orchestral player (Franois Benda, Thomas Friedli Steven Kanoff, ...etc)....
I first wanted to buy myself a pair of Prestige RC and let him tune the whole clarinet from A to Z and add some special key systems to improve acoustic qualities. I had tried about 15 clarinets (which had allready been preselected by Franois Benda at Buffet factory), I found two that I thought was quite good, not talking about A's which were all horrible.
You see I've been very happy with my Rc's, I took long enough to find them (especially the A which has a very unique tone, which I haven't found anywhere on other A's). For these instrument I went to the factory, and I tried a lot of instruments. When I said 95 % percent were unplayable... not true they were all playable, but I didn't find straight away what I wanted really.
But you know since I've tried these Wurlitzers... There's no comparison... Buffet is the VW Beetle, and Wurlitzer is the Rolls Royce.
The only hick is that they cost a fortune ~10'000 $ for a pair.
Regards
DAn
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2001-06-11 11:05
I have tried some very good Wrlitzer Reform clarinets. Together with a carefully selected German mouthpiece you get a very comfortable resistance in the sound that is very different from the French instruments.
I also like the improvements they have added to the mechanics, like the parallel keys for F/C with two toneholes instead of one and the "free" ring for R index B/F# that opens up a separate vent hole on the side. It also has a separate tonehole for throut Bb, connected to the thumb ring. These improvements help intonation and evenness of sound and it's a mystery that Buffet don't do the same. This goes well with Boehms original idea that one tonehole shuld only open for one semitone. If you can afford it and are willing to change your embouchure slightly, go for it.
Alphie
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Author: Hans de Nijs
Date: 2001-06-11 12:06
I'm living in the Netherlands and maybe you know that the reform-boehm system from (Herbert) Wurlitzer is quite popular here and mainly used in the major orchestras. (It is interesting that Aart Roozenboom has started 30 years ago in the Orchestra of the Hague on the Schmidt-Kolbe system from Fritz Wurlitzer and after changing to the boehm system (Buffet Crampon ?) is now playing on reform boehm clarinets from Wurlitzer).
I'm playing older Fritz Wurlitzer Reform boehm instruments from 1964. The instruments are superb for tone quality, also the key work still is of a very high level and made for eternity... The common set-up in the Netherlands is the usage of mouthpieces with a Heinz Viotto facing N1 on Zinner blanks, which gives a very good result..
After the death of Herbert Wurlitzer in 1989 the company still makes reform-boehm instruments from E-flat till Bass, but i don't know if the level of quality is still so high as in former days .... In any case the price still is.
A few Meister formely from the firm Herbert Wurlitzer are independent now and are making in Germany also very fine reform-boehm instruments. (Leitner&Kraus, Huying, Dietz). Although these instruments are also quit expensive it is worth to give these brands also a trial.
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2001-06-12 04:09
I am very interested in those hand-made German clarinets. But since they are
too expensive I have to give them up. In fact if I try one I may buy one to bankrupt myself.
By the way, there is a small music instruments shop in Japan where they sell
reformed Wuritzer,Ottomar-Hammerschmidt, and Schwenk&Seggelke.
The shop owner negotiated the manufacturers to tune them to A=442Hz and
modified key arrangements for Japanese people's hand relatively smaller than
German. They also sell German type mouthpieces and reeds and ligatures.
You might correspond to shop owner at the right bottom of this page.
http://www.ishimori-co.com/
I think German clarinets are very suitable for Brahms sonatas and French ones
for Rossini. Changing instruments by the composer wil be a good idea.
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Author: enock10000doo
Date: 2006-10-21 05:42
Hi..
I cant read Japanise. So it is hard to look and read.
I just want to know, Wurlitzer reform clarinet has 3 different clarinet.
Ｎｏ．１８５, Ｎｏ．１８８, Ｎｏ．１８７
what is different?
I think descriptions in website. but i cant read it.
And do you know much is those clarinet?
Thank You
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-10-21 07:41
Mark Charette wrote:
"At least with Wurlitzer you have no "trials" - you order them and they're delivered to you."
Basically correct, but not entirely. Here is what Wurlitzer wrote me:
"You can try an instrument, but we have a waiting list and make the instruments by order. Time for delivery is around 3-5 months. Please let us also know when you plan to come to Neustadt and which model you want to try. Then we try to have such an model ready for trying."
So, although the clarinets are basically made for specific orders, it might be possible to come and just try a clarinet (if you plan enough time in advance). There are also very high level German clarinet companies who make reform Boehm clarinets as far as I know (sorry I don't remember the names). Might be worth it asking some players from Germany (or other country) which companies are recommended, etc.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2006-10-21 14:12
Charles Steier plays Wurlitzer Reform Boehms, as do Lorin Levee in Los Angeles and Loren Kitt in the National Symphony. See http://holz.fureai.or.jp/catalogue/Cla_Wurlitzer.html
Be aware that they have bores much closer to German instruments than French ones, and they blow very differently. (Also, they require a different mouthpiece.)
I've tried Reform Boehms from several makers and found them to have extremely high resistance, with excellent intonation and a very good tone. However, at least for me, they have only one tone color -- you blow here and it comes out there. I prefer my Buffets, on which I can get many colors. Of course Sabine Meyer can get many colors from her German system Wurlitzer. You probably have to grow up playing it.
It's not a minor switch.
Here's a picture: http://www.cherryvalleymusic.com/charles/wurlitzer.htm. There are several pages on the site discussing the Reform Boehm design.
Ken Shaw
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2006-10-21 14:33
Ken Shaw writes: "Charles Steier plays Wurlitzer Reform Boehms, as do Lorin Levee in Los Angeles and Loren Kitt in the National Symphony"
Interesting to know the basis of this revalation about Loren Kitt; last time I saw him (couple of months ago) he was playing Yamaha clarinets having switched from his long-time Selmer 10G's.
As far as I know, Charles Steier is not playing the clarinet at all anymore!
The poor factory setup of Buffet instruments seems to be an ongoing issue -- thank heavens for the Brannens, Mark Jacobi et al!
Larry Bocaner
National Symphony Orchestra (retired)
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Author: Ben
Date: 2006-10-21 16:24
I'd second Ken Shaw's statements about the RB in regards to resistance, color, etc. I spent some time with a set of RB Wurlizters (model 185) a couple years back and was very impressed with many aspects of the instrument; what made me decide to sell them was the difficulty in varying the color of sound, and the resistance being a bit much. With a French clarinet, I think a lot of the resistance is potentially built into the mouthpiece/reed, whereas people using a German bore have more resistance built into the instrument, and will often use much softer reeds. Wurlitzer had sent me some different barrels; one with a bore to match a German style mouthpiece, and the other which could adapt a Vandoren/Zinner style French mouthpiece. Since the tennon size is different, you would need a different sized barrel, regardless of how the bore might be designed for tuning/resistance. So, I did some experimenting with both styles of mouthpiece before making any final conclusion about resistance and color.
I also decided not to keep them because as good as the intonation was, it did not seem better than my Buffets, just different. If I remember right, some notes that were off on my Buffets were much better on the Wurlitzer, and vice e versa. In particular, I remember F and E in the second register being much flatter. So, for playing in a professional ensemble with unisons with the other clarinet players, at least in the US., it could have made tuning more difficult. I also personally found even with the longer barrels, they tended to be a bit high in pitch; I felt like I had to work to get the pith down to 442.
So, if Karl Leister is your ideal of how a clarinet should sound, these clarinets will definitely get you closer to that and would be great for chamber music or perhaps many larger groups in Europe. If your idea of how a clarinet should sound is closer to Burt Hara, Larry Combs, Allesandro Carbonare, etc., as is for me, it may be better to stick with a French clarinet!
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Author: RodRubber
Date: 2006-10-21 23:20
Hi,
Just to clarify. Loren Kitt is DEFINATELY not performing on a reform boehm wurlitzer. This being said, there is a small following in the DC area of wurlitzer adherents. One person in particular is a friend of Baron Wurlitzer. This particular player has reform beohm versions of eb, c , bb, and a clarinets, as well as a most amazing basset horn. They are truly spectacular sounding instruments.
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