 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: J-MB
Date: 2017-09-21 00:47
Hi all! I recently was placed 4th chair in a local youth wind symphony as a freshmen! although i was 4th chair last year, i am still happy i am in it, I was wondering if you guys had any tips on being a better ensemble player? also, im kinda upset i placed 4th, as 4th is 2nd part 1st chair, and i was really looking forward to 1st.
it doesnt make sense why i would be 4th when i make the youth orchestra (2 clarinets) yet 2nd chair in the Wind symphony didnt? Im not sure.
so if you all could leave tips on being a better ensemble player and how to find comfort in this. id appreciate it
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2017-09-21 02:01
Tip 1: stop obsessing over your chair placement. Especially if you aren't a contender for 1st chair.
Is your placement based on an audition played alone or in a group? If alone,
Tip 2: become the best clarinetist and the best musician you can be. It's true that playing principal and playing as a section member are in some ways different, but the control you develop as you become simply a good player will let you make whatever changes are needed from one role to the other. A good player is a good player, whatever his placement in an ensemble is.
Are the other players in the band the same ones you've been placed above in the orchestra? Same overall organization? Same judges? Any differences could explain the different result but, if everything is the same,
Tip 3 (not really a tip, per se, but maybe important if you want to improve): ask whoever is responsible for chair assignments why you seem to place differently in band than you do in orchestra.
Karl
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Author: zhangray4
Date: 2017-09-21 02:24
As a student, I know how you feel. I used to be that way too, and a friend of mine is still overly obsessed with chairs.
I audition for regional and state honor bands every year, and although I would always get in, I used to be upset when I did worse than the year before (or even if I did about the same). There are two instances that made me realize why I should not care as much about what chair I get:
1. This January, as a junior, results for state honor bands came out after we submitted a audio recording back in December, and I found out I was placed in the lowest of the 3 bands: concert band. I was disappointed because in both my freshmen and sophomore year, I had been in symphonic band, the middle band. Had I gotten worse after a year? On the other hand, a clarinet friend of mine got into the top ensemble. Does it really mean I am much worse than her? The answer is no. A month later for our regional honor band, we were seat partners, me being first and she second. Yet I did not view her as being better or worse than me, just a nice friend somewhere around my level.
2. A week ago, a French horn friend of mine got his braces off and had a hard time playing his instrument. He had just been accepted to a local orchestra as 3rd Horn, one chair higher than the previous two years. When it got to the first sectional, he asked the 4th Horn to play the solo for him since he really could not play it after his braces were removed. The director, seeing this, demoted my friend to 4th Horn. My friend complained to me and our school's director, and my director said a few words that nailed it right on the money. "Cameron," he said, "so what? All the horn parts need to be covered by someone. Each Horn part is just as important, so why are you complaining? It doesn't make you less of a player just because you are one chair lower. Instead of complaining, use it as motivation to be even better next year."
Point of the story...try to be the best clarinetist/musician YOU can be. You don't need to feel bad just because you are still the same chair as last year. The most important thing id to try to improve yourself as best as you can. Playing 2nd Clarinet instead of 1st Clarinet doesn't necessarily mean you are incapable of playing 1st Clarinet parts, and it certainly does not mean you are not as good as the other clarinets.
-- Ray Zhang
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Author: Musikat
Date: 2017-09-21 03:06
I have a couple of stories about this.
Many years ago in high school I was lucky enough to attend Interlochen arts camp for 8 weeks after my junior and senior year. The first year I went I auditioned and placed 4th chair in the highest band, which was amazing! But they have weekly challenges and I fell a few chairs, ending up mid 2nd-part, which was still very respectable. The following year after more lessons and another year of growth I went and auditioned for placement and placed in 2nd part in the lower band. Like you I was very disappointed and wondered what went wrong because I thought my audition went well.
That second summer I took maybe two weeks to advance back into the higher band and three to get back to around the same place I had been the previous year, in the higher band.
Flash forward a few (ahem) years and I returned to playing clarinet after a 9 year hiatus and auditioned for an adult all state band. I placed 4th (I'm sensing a trend here). The next year I placed 11th and was 1st chair 3rd part, and the two years after that I was in the mid 2nd part section. Having now done that adult band for 4 years running I can tell you that there are people that place quite high one year and much lower the following, and vice versa. I have come to the conclusion that it is a combination of a couple of factors:
1. judging is always subjective, especially when done with cellphone recordings!
2. With the exception of the top 2-3 players we are all on a relatively similar level with slightly different strengths and weaknesses, so the chances of any one person having a better/worse audition recording and placing higher or lower than you is pretty good.
The bottom line is I always get a lot out of playing with others who are as good or better than I am and it ends up being a very rewarding experience no matter what. Congratulations on placing 4th and have fun!
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2017-09-21 03:13
I concur with Karl.
I'd add...take time to understand the second chair part. I spent my high school years focused on first chair parts...finding later that I lacked a full understanding of the other parts, chord structures, etc. No matter where you are placed, take the time to learn about music in general, and how your "part" fits into the bigger picture.
On the side, you'll be practicing and improving, so you'll one day (most likely) end up in first chair...but in the meantime, look at second chair as a fleeting opportunity to learn more about music, and grab everything you can from it. Listen closely to how your part sounds when added to the first chair/third chair parts.
First chair generally comes along if you want it and put the practice in - I'd recommend worrying less about the chair, and more about the music.
There's a good chance (that in the long run) your time in second chair could help you bypass those placed ahead of you right now.
Have fun and enjoy the opportunity!
Fuzzy
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Author: hans
Date: 2017-09-21 17:37
First - When asked by clarinet players how they could become as good as he was, Artie Shaw has been quoted as saying that they should practice 10 hours per day, like he did; i.e., there is no substitute for effective practice time. I think GBK posted a good practice routine some years ago, which can probably be found on this site.
Second - Advice given to me by a professional musician: When playing in a group, listen to what others are doing. When you hear something that is of particular interest, ask the person who played it how it was done so that you can learn continually from others.
Third - Don't become obsessed with equipment.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2017-09-21 20:09
Often players don't say much about the audition. So maybe you were just outplayed.
I sometimes hear players say they have been playing for 20 years, but after talking to them they play once a week at the local community band rehearsal and the horn sits in the case until the next week and during the summer months the horn never gets opened! Well that doesn't add up to 20 years.
What did you play at the audition? Was there sight reading? If so, how did it go? Scales? Prepared pieces?
Please fill us in a bit more. I've seen really great players with dyslexia have trouble with sight reading and find themselves wrongfully in the 3rd section. They should be in the first section. Of course others that don't practice ever, but who can sight read are in the first section. The dyslexic people or people who are slow at reading music go home and woodshed the parts and are well prepared for the upcoming rehearsals and concerts.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: gwie
Date: 2017-09-21 20:57
> He had just been accepted to a local orchestra as 3rd Horn,
> one chair higher than the previous two years.
This is where the whole chair ranking thing breaks down completely.
French horn sections have distinct roles for the four different parts. 1 and 3 are higher pitch parts, and 2 and 4 are the lower pitch parts. Some horn players specialize on 1/3 or 2/4, even playing special instruments for the register they spend most of their time in. I noticed one colleague didn't even bother with a double horn because the played Horn 4 most of the time. Modern orchestras also employ a fifth player, a "first horn assistant" that comes in to play tutti parts and help the principal so that challenging pieces don't become a massive endurance issue.
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Author: J-MB
Date: 2017-09-21 23:19
Bob, I played Weber Concerto 1, movement one. Sight reading.
I made no mistakes in sight reading and played the Concerto really well, no technical mistakes, but a few squeaks.
I thought I did really well. But the clarinet section is VERY competitive, and they very well may have improved. But I did too, and I was just disappointed I am still 4th chair like last year
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2017-09-22 03:48
J-MB,
Are you taking lessons? If so, what does your teacher say? If not, how do you know you "played the Concerto really well?" Having an objective listener available to evaluate your playing is probably a must. I'd not place much stock in having a peer evaluate your playing; you need a seasoned ear.
Another couple of thoughts. How do you know you made no mistakes on the sight reading? Also, no technical mistakes does not always mean that your played musically.
HRL
PS I think you are too concerned about chair placement and need to place value on what is really important (growing musically, being a good section member, and learning from these challenges). Actually, I think a lot of what you have said comes off as a whine. Suck it up and move forward with a positive attitude!
Post Edited (2017-09-22 20:03)
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Author: J-MB
Date: 2017-09-22 04:32
im more concerned with my part, first is a way more challenging experience IMO, as i played 2nd last year
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Author: zhangray4
Date: 2017-09-22 05:31
I know this has nothing to do with responding to the original post, but I agree with Bob completely about sight reading. I have never been good at sight reading, and it brings me down a few chairs perhaps in county band auditions. And especially for these local orchestras/bands: you're given a good amount of time to work on the piece before concert day, and even a week probably till 1st rehearsal. They don't give you your part the day of 1st rehearsal to sight read. Why put so much emphasis on sight reading?
I've been practicing sight reading a lot and I still don't get much better. I practiced so much to the point when I took a glance at the sight reading for my county honor band during the audition, I noticed I had played the passage before! But just ONCE. And I ended up playing it close to perfect, dynamics, articulations, etc. Just by playing it ONCE.
Given that I practice more than once before coming to rehearsals (actually numerous times), why is sight reading such a big deal?
-- Ray Zhang
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Author: gwie
Date: 2017-09-22 07:31
Sight-reading is important because of limited rehearsal time. Being able to read and process the music quickly saves time for everyone.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2017-09-22 16:22
J-MB,
I believe you asked for tips, right? Now you say "im more concerned with my part." Which is it?
I stand by my advice of "I think you are too concerned about chair placement and need to place value on what is really important (growing musically, being a good section member, and learning from these challenges)."
HRL
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Author: J-MB
Date: 2017-09-23 00:15
I was saying that was in regard to im more concerned with part than my chair, I would still appreciate tips.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2017-09-23 18:08
Immerse yourself:
Listen to the best players, ideally live and not recordings. This will give you good examples of the kind of sound possibilities. And, you can also be inspired by listening to other great wind musicians, not just clarinetists.
Find the best teacher than you can afford ... a professional player that teaches at a college level, if you can find one ...
Play as often as you can with other musicians ... especially in small ensembles.
Don't go one day (unless sick) without some serious work on fundamentals, especially starting out with long tone warm-ups.
Keep you horn assembled (and swabbed out) on a peg at home, allowing you to grab it and play often and not having to go thru the assembly process each time.
Make you practice sessions short (45 minutes or so at max) and allow a short (at least 10 minute) rest period between each.
Don't play if your embouchure is strained, shaky or sore ... you may be playing to much until you are conditioned ... or may have equipment issues that is wearing you out too quickly.
Some people recommend not playing if you are tired or emotionally drained, but as a musician, you will often have to play/perform when you really feel like crap ... get used to the idea and power thru your problems, and most likely you will feel better after playing a while ... however, the next point:
Don't get frustrated with slow, plateaued or even backwards progress for a few days ... we all have days when we have slipped and wish we had picked another instrument of torture ...
Have fun! Music is HARD work, but it's fun at the same time ....
Tom
Post Edited (2017-09-23 18:13)
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Author: Richie
Date: 2017-09-24 08:46
The good thing about being people you feel are better than you is that you improve even faster.
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