 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2017-09-17 02:25
For starters, any of you can search this forum and find many threads on the various methods for dealing with water (condensation? saliva? who knows) interfering with play. Unless you're soloing on "Under the Sea", gurgling has no place in your music.
I recently increased my daily song practice quota from 10 to 13. Turns out the additional 3 songs, sometimes more than that, are all "underwater" if I don't do something about it. So I reviewed past comments and made my own choices, which were immediately effective.
1) Swab after every 4th song. I don't usually like brush type swabs, but I had an old one. I added a stiff long handle so I can swab my assembled clarinet from the bell all the way to the register tube. It'll all fit in my case and travel to gigs.
2) Position my mouthpiece tilted not centered, maybe 5-10 degrees. Clarinet tilts left, thumbs move to right. Actually feels better that way, probably now would feel wrong centered. Your mileage may vary.
Only gurgle since new protocol is when I forgot to swab. So the tilt on its own definitely would not do it, and may not help. But it's OK.
If these hadn't done it, next I would have tried Vaseline inside the offending tone holes. That requires disassembly.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2017-09-17 02:27)
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Author: Roys_toys
Date: 2017-09-17 21:57
Hi
I have an old book ( guess 1940s) TREATISE ON THE CLARINET where the C# water problem is discussed. the advice is " before playing take a piece of moistened broom-straw, draw it down the inside of the upper joint. it should pass near C# hole but carefully avoid it. water should follow the line made by the straw."
I have never tried it, and can only guess what precisely a broom straw is. I presume he was trying to say: not a drinking straw.
May help ?
2/ I think I remember when I first bought my R13 there were user instructions in the case (!!) which included swabbing it every 15 minutes if I recall correctly. I have a long swab with a tail both ends, but only one is weighted, which allows this once the mp is off. the only prob I have encountered is when I use Optimum lig it often comes off of the mp during this operation.
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2017-09-17 23:00
The rigid brush with long handle allows me to swab without any clarinet disassembly, not even mouthpiece, essential when you've got to do it quickly. I could post a photo.
Part of the trick is to swab before gurgling happens or is even imminent. Head it off at the pass.
Apparently there are many methods for treating the inside of your bore to perhaps guide the flow of moisture away from trouble. Hadn't heard about using a broom straw (from an old fashioned witch's style broom I suppose). Most seem to involve oils or waxes, even RainX (consensus was that stuff is bad, don't do it). When players get desperate enough they will try anything- I can relate to that.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2017-09-17 23:12)
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2017-09-17 23:24
Swab early. Swab as often as needed. Swabbing after the first five minutes of play can be helpful as a great deal of moisture condenses during that time but has not yet started to trail down the instrument. Personally, I would never use the kind of swab you seem to be describing for fear of scratching the bore. It takes just a moment to remove the mouthpiece and drop a handkerchief swab down the length.
If you were fine for 10 songs, but 13 is a problem you probably won't need to swab more than once or twice during your playing session to avoid a problem.
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2017-09-17 23:55
"Rigid brush" is a misnomer. It's a 9 inch long soft pad saver with a rigid wire spine. My handle (just a 12 inch long wooden dowel) wired to one end lets me swab from the bell end. The stick never touches the bore. No disturbance to ligature or tuning. Quick and easy. My handle folds with the pad saver and fits in my case. Surely somebody makes a product like this, but I didn't find it in a quick search. Free $million idea for somebody. OK maybe it's a $15 idea. But the last thing I want is to forgo a swab because it's too much trouble at the moment, or I don't have enough time.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2017-09-18 08:28
It's an interesting idea, I'll give you that.
Pad savers aren't the end of the world unless they are left in the instrument between sessions, especially if it's a wood instrument. The main downside in your case would be the eventuality of getting bits of the fluff left in the tone holes and then under a pad. This would cause a leak until blown out.
I'd still be worried about it flexing enough to impact the bore, but we all tolerate a certain amount of risk for convenience and life
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Author: John Morton
Date: 2017-09-19 00:55
I have tried over the years to get to the bottom of the condensation mystery. Much more often than not, my 1 hr. practice sessions and 2-3 hr. band gigs happen with no moisture problems at all. But sometimes in practice the moisture starts immediately. Within minutes it floods down the bore, as well as out from under the reed to wet the outside of the mouthpiece and barrel.
My impression is that these occasions mostly happen with a resistant reed that requires more embouchure pressure, but I think temperature and humidity conditions might also trigger this effect. The situation has improved over time as my embouchure has become more efficient, and the drastic flood of condensation rarely happens now.
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2017-09-19 02:20
Might be a good idea to wrap the connection between swab and handle with soft cloth, just in case it ever touches the bore.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2017-09-20 20:39)
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2017-09-20 22:10
Nice video, and clever design. I would definitely not be doing that to any good clarinet I cared about though for reasons already mentioned.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2017-09-20 23:25
Bottom line, water condenses from your breath as you play and eventually (or sooner) runs down the bore. If it goes toward a tonehole, it collects in the hole and causes gurgling. The most effective way of preventing the gurgles is to swab often. It doesn't take very long to swab a clarinet - the biggest headache is having the reed move when you take the mouthpiece off, so keep the mouthpiece cork well-lubed.
You don't need a routine of "every 4th song." Some songs are longer than others, and if you're actually playing a solo piece or other material that isn't just a 32 or 48 bar song form, the number of pieces becomes irrelevant.
You'll get more condensate in the bore at the beginning of your practice session when the clarinet is cooler - your breath still goes in at 98+ degrees. You may need routinely to swab after the first four or five minutes. After that not as much.
You'll get more condensate in the bore if the environment is chilly - the air inside the clarinet will be cooled, keeping the clarinet walls cooler. Your breath is still going in at 98+ degrees. You may need to swab at every opportunity in an air-conditioned room and not wait for 4 songs to go by.
You can use a brush if you want to. I don't think they have as much surface contact with the bore as a cloth swab of the right size and my experience with brushes is that they move water around more than they absorb and remove it.
Whenever you swab, if there's already gurgling going on, you have to blot the water that's already there out of the hole. You can work a cloth swab under most pads, close the pad on it to wick out the water and take it out after you've swabbed the bore. Many people use cigarette paper, which is very thin so it goes under even hard-to-reach pads and very absorbent.
I would never recommend tilting the mouthpiece. Unless you're also twisting your head, you're probably putting more pressure on one side of the reed.
If (as I remember you were earlier) you're using Légère reeds, my experience with them is that they shed more water, leading to bubbling toneholes sooner than with cane, so I have to swab more than I do with cane.
If what you're doing works, then it works given what you're playing and where you're playing it. But it isn't useful IMO as a general prescription for others to follow.
Karl
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