 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: tucker ★2017
Date: 2017-08-13 16:55
I can't seem to find a side by side comparison. What are the differences between a CSVR and SEVR?
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Author: TomS
Date: 2017-08-13 18:08
I think, roughly, the CSVR is more like the Buffet R13 and the SEVR is more like the RC ...
Yamaha kicks butt!
Tom
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2017-08-14 03:20
According to Yamaha the SEVR is more like the RC's. Cost a shade more, but not a lot more. I am fine with the CSVR's. Most of the pro's I know like these CSVR's a lot.
To be blunt I wish the bores were a shade smaller on ALL of the horns being made right now. But at least the Yamaha's play in tune very well. Each note sounds so nice and even. These horns are live. Even the German horns are live and the bores are straight. They've done their homework.
I'm sure I'd be most happy playing on the SEVR's, but they weren't out when I picked out the CSVR's. They came out about 8 months later.
Test both before buying.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2017-08-14 04:35
At the ICA Clarinet Fest in Orlando a couple of weeks ago, I got to try both the CSVR and the SEVR. I was disappointed that they didn't have the SE Artist there, and nobody seemed to know why.
The Yamaha reps told me the SEVR has a slightly larger bore than the CSVR. The CSVR is a very even sounding instrument rather like a very good Buffet R13 but with a different kind of ring or "ping" sound. If you want the original R13 ping, I'd say you have to go up in price and get a well-selected, set-up Buffet R13 Prestige (of which there were many fine examples at the fest). If you like the sound of the CSVR, it is probably unrivaled in evenness, tuning, and response. I found the SEVR had a slightly bigger sound and a very wide dynamic range. I could not believe how easy it is to go from ppp to ffff and back on it without the tone getting shrill or breaking. The SEVR has a ping to it but, again, not the same ping you get from a good Buffet R13 Prestige. It tunes as well as the CSVR and has a very even scale, with maybe a slightly rounder sound.
One more clarinet that impressed me was the Selmer Seles Presence model. It is very different from the Signature or the Recital. Less covered sound and less resistance. Very easy to blow and control, and great focus and resonance in the sound. I suspect that with the right mouthpiece, the Presence might actually have more of the characteristic Buffet R13 ring than the Yamahas. (I know I'm going to catch flack for saying that.) Is it just as good (for about $700.00 more) as the Yamahas? I'm not sure. I need to go back somehow and play the SEVR, CSVR, Seles Presence, and a good Buffet R13 Prestige side by side to really be sure.
All four of these seem to me to be excellent clarinets, certainly way better than the typical R13 out the box these days. I didn't hear any big flaws or drawbacks in any of them. Of course, they all have some weak points--all clarinets do--but any weakness in these 4 can easily be compensated for by a good player. And, let me add that despite the enthusiasm of many here (including me) for the new Yamahas, I can easily see that many orchestral players might still prefer the sound of a well-selected, expertly set up Buffet Prestige R13 and be willing to pay more for that.
Post Edited (2017-08-31 03:24)
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Author: gatto
Date: 2017-08-14 16:16
Have the Yamaha clarinets retained their natural wood?
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2017-08-15 10:21
I have a set of the CSVRs and a set of the SEVRs. I love both, they have very different sonic profile. I have to say I don't think the SEVR resembles the RC, I think it's more reminiscent of a larger bore clarinet like my Centered tone. I really like the way SEVR plays, it's hard to describe sound, I would describe it as maybe "less complex" than the CSVR? I don't mean that in a negative way either. I played the SEV a lot a few years back and the SEVR is a really different clarinet then I remember that clarinet being. I enjoy playing both sets of Yamahas better than the set of Toscas that I just sold.
Plus the build out of the box is impeccable. I received a set and played the Bb on a gig that evening.
Tom Puwalski
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Author: TomS
Date: 2017-08-15 18:52
I have a YCL-650, which is sorta based on the SEV ... it does have a big, free-blowing, centered sound ... really good for wind band work ... and well in tune, especially the altissimo is better in tune than my R13 and others ...
I've played the CSVR and it's on my wish list ... dunno when I will turn loose of the loot ...
Just get the Yamaha and have the Buffet logo laser engraved on the clarinet body ... your friends will wonder where you found such a select clarinet ...
But the Buffet doesn't have any flies on it ... if you know what I mean.
Tom
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2017-08-16 10:12
Tom S wrote - "Just get the Yamaha and have the Buffet logo laser engraved on the clarinet body ... your friends will wonder where you found such a select clarinet ..."
I can't stop laughing!
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2017-08-16 18:02
"Just get the Yamaha and have the Buffet logo laser engraved on the clarinet body ... your friends will wonder where you found such a select clarinet ..."
Ha! Best thing on the internet today! (starts googling who does laser wood engraving)
~Robt L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage
Lig: Ishimori, Behn Delrin
Reed: Legere French Cut 3.75/4, Behn Brio 4
Horns: Uebel Superior (Bb,A), Ridenour Lyrique, Buffet R13 (Eb)
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Author: gwie
Date: 2017-08-16 22:02
Someone needs to start a business making fancy silver and gold logo badges that we can affix to our clarinets ourselves.
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2017-08-16 22:16
Actually we should all stop worrying about what anybody thinks about what we play. People are too interested in being "in the club" putting too much into "Brands" to really evaluate clarinets, mouthpieces, reeds and ligatures in anyway that resembles any kind of "scientific" way.
I just want to add this. Having a "logo change" to a Yamaha could cost more than the clarinet. At the last "horns of plenty" at Music and Arts center. A few CSVRs were sold at $2225-2350.00. That is a really good price for an amazing instrument. I have a few students looking for instrumetns and I've been waiting for them to come in.
Tom Puwalski
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2017-08-18 07:23
I know that Yamaha is always working on new projects. Here in the USA we often don't see them right away as they are first tested in Japan.
So we kind of have to be patient. When we do get the new models such as the SEVR's and the German CS111R just released this year we actually get the final finished versions.
So expect some new models to appear at the NAMM Convention in January. I think it is too soon to see a new version of the CSVR's. but something new, not seen yet. I am thinking a new version of the 650, plus another pro model.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: DanVeach
Date: 2017-08-19 18:53
I tried both at ClarinetFest 2017. Everyone was clustered around the CSVRs, but I liked the SEVR much better. A huge, thrilling, resonant sound, especially in the lower register. If you play in a band, or want your tone to really stand out, this is the horn for you.
www.danveach.com
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2017-08-19 19:04
" " " " Ditto, Dan! With the SEVR, "the thrill is back." That's one dynamic horn.
If you want something good and really different from the classic Buffet sound (which is still great in itself!), that's it.
Post Edited (2017-08-31 03:29)
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2017-08-19 22:29
Here is the yamaha illustration of the Bore differences between a CSVR and an SEVR.
Tom Puwalski
</Users/tski1128/Desktop/SEVR VS CSVR.jpg>
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Author: Shostakovich
Date: 2017-08-21 06:48
Seabreeze, if you do go back and do a side by side comparison, make sure you throw a Selmer Privilege in the mix as well. I've played the presence and the privilege. While the former was on par with an R13, the latter blew me away. Your comment on the SEVR's dynamic range holds true for the privilege, too - the instrument was able to take every bit of air I could supply, and then some.
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Author: Shostakovich
Date: 2017-08-21 07:00
Oh, and you can get the little buffet badges here :P
http://www.dawkes.co.uk/badge+-+prestige+r13+%28france%29.dm?catno=wbu1685
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2017-08-21 12:00
Attachment: Yamaha.jpg (51k)
Here is the bore diagram that Tom was trying to upload (see attachment).
Anders
Post Edited (2017-08-21 13:14)
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Author: KaiLiau
Date: 2017-08-22 15:21
Interesting diagrams for these clarinet. Any chance having the same for the famous CSG?
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Author: jthole
Date: 2017-10-01 19:05
Shostakovich wrote:
"I've played the presence and the privilege. While the former was on par with an R13, the latter blew me away. Your comment on the SEVR's dynamic range holds true for the privilege, too - the instrument was able to take every bit of air I could supply, and then some."
I had the chance to test a Privilege yesterday (and a Seles Prologue student clarinet). The Prologue was a solid midrange clarinet, but the Privilege was something completely different. It's rare that I immediately feel "at home" on a clarinet, but I was seriously impressed. Like 'Shostakovich' wrote above, the Privilege blew me away. Lovely response, sound, and intonation, and the keywork was really comfortable.
If I was to look for a new clarinet currently, the Privilege would be very high on my list.
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Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2022-09-10 16:15
Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but I think these instruments really deserve a closer look.
I'm currently on the verge of buying a pair of SEVR's (with eb levers) having had them for testing for a few days, among with CSVR's.
They might be a replacement for my RC's, which I'm growing somewhat tired of - not that they're bad clarinets, but they have some sort of limits in terms of sound, flexibility, keywork.
But first things first:
If you're in the market for affordable "professional level instruments" (whatever that is supposed to mean), their price tag really is fantastic, considering that a Buffet RC now costs 3500€ here in Germany, but I get the pair of SEVR's for 5000€!!!
The analogy SEVR=RC and CSVR=R13 seems kind of fitting, given that the CSVR has a more direct core, is more "on point" perhaps having that so-called "ping" compared to the SEVR, which I find somewhat sweeter, possibly because it has more/different overtones.
That being said, the overall quality and ergonomics (especially for mid-sized hands) certainly outmatch regular RC's/R13's, so the Yamahas might be on par with Prestige models (padding/corks are still way better on Yamahas!!)
But even then, they do have their own characteristics and I'd just use these analogies for the sake of illustrating what these instruments might be like.
Ultimately, you'd have to try on your own. But I'll say as much: I've tried the Backun MoBa a few months ago and didn't like it as much as the SEVR, which has great tuning, better throat notes and a much softer (less aggressive, less squeaky) altissimo than a RC, while "objectively"
the MoBa has a bit more to offer. But! I most certainly had more fun playing the SEVR because of weight, ergonomics and responsiveness, which are more important factors to me than having a perfect low F/E.
In that sense, both CSVR and SEVR are very traditional instruments, but IMHO the best instrument should have the most basic keywork and do whatever you point it at.
I'll also write something about how others (friends, family) like the SEVR, but so far, it's very promising.
Best regards
Christian
Post Edited (2022-09-10 16:24)
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2022-09-11 07:14
I play on both SEVR's and CSVR's (I have a pair of each). I think the descriptions of their sound and responsiveness here are pretty spot on. Most of the time the SEVR Bb and CSVR A are my primary horns, while the CSVR Bb and SEVR A are my back-ups. That works well for me. Sometimes I'll choose the CSVR Bb for a particular job, but the SEVR A gets very little play, despite being perfectly nice when I do give it a turn.
Anders
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Author: JTJC
Date: 2022-09-13 13:35
Can anyone say how they find the SEVR/CSVR against the CSG III? The latter costs a bit more but is it a noticeably better instrument or do you think you're paying for the more unusual styling and additional options that come with the CSG III (silver/Hamilton and Low E/F key)?
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Author: jim sclater
Date: 2022-09-13 21:39
Over the past 2-3 years I have had the good fortune to acquire a CSVR, an SE-V, and a CG I, all of which were purchased used but in very good condition. I make it a point to use all of them, sort of in a rotation basis. I have not had the opportunity to try the newest CG model, the CGIII. There are subtle differences in them, but I just like them all very much. I think Yamaha clarinets are so consistent and well-made. I wouldn't hesitate to advise anyone looking for fine clarinets to try them out.
jsclater@comcast.net
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Author: Dan Oberlin ★2017
Date: 2022-09-14 22:02
Here's
https://on.soundcloud.com/M2aRh
a comparison of the CSGII and SEVR, done yesterday for reasons unrelated to this thread There are two takes each of two excerpts. In each case the first take is the CSG, the second the SEV. Same mouthpiece, reed, and recording conditions used for each, and my apologies for not remembering the excerpts that well after all these years.
Post Edited (2022-09-14 22:03)
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Author: JTJC
Date: 2022-09-15 19:41
Thanks Dan,
That's very informative. Both sound very good and perhaps I marginally prefer the sound of the SEVR, which is in fact the cheaper instrument here in the UK.
Clearly, both instruments are capable of great results, but how do you find the relative quality of each. I'd expect the more expensive CSG to have an edge regarding build, but is that the case?
On the other hand the price difference isnt that great considering the SEVR comes with one barrel while the CSG III comes with two, plus l/h Ab/Eb key. Or are these two just separated by marketing hype?
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Author: jim sclater
Date: 2022-09-15 23:07
They sound remarkably the same overall. The throat Bb sounds a bit clearer on the SEVR, though.
jsclater@comcast.net
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Author: Dan Oberlin ★2017
Date: 2022-09-17 23:07
Responding to JTJC above: the only difference in build is that the CSG has metal rings on the ends of the tenons of the upper joint.
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Author: Hy-Dex
Date: 2022-09-18 00:06
I bought a Bb and A set each of CSVR and SEVR fairly recently. I had a large selection from which to choose, took my time in the selection process (about six months), and am still breaking in all four clarinets. I like both models and both models sound great and play very well in tune for me for the most part, though the SEVR may have slightly better intonation overall.
Comparison of the two models in my experience revealed that the CSVR may have a more diffuse and warmer sound whereas the SEVR has a bigger and more streamlined or focused sound. Like another poster, I believe I prefer the SEVR Bb and the CSVR A clarinet, though the other two instruments are perfectly fine.
As good as these instruments are and as much as I like them, I am as of yet uncertain whether they are right for me personally in the long-term. For example, I get a sweeter sound on some of my other clarinets.
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Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2022-10-03 08:01
So I eventually gave them back...
Why? Because in the end, the change was not significant enough for me to justify spending 5000€, even though the Instruments are better than my current RC's. BUT, and that's my "issue" (or perhaps blessing, financially speaking), they might "outperform" my RC's by 10-15% and even then, people that I did blindtests with certainly didn't dislike the RC's
To be sure, the SEVR does have a quality and eveness to it that truly deserves some praise. I'm a bit uncertain if it really projects as nicely as an RC (or R13, for that matter), as when accompanied by a piano, you suddenly have a slightly harder time being present all the time (ig the piece requires it). Apart from that, I disliked the fact that the eb lever didn't have a separate post for it, though that might not be a complete dealbreaker. As I've said, good instruments, but perhaps a well-set up RC is also hard to beat
By the way, I talked with Mr. Pfeiffer (I think, as he speaks German, too) from Lohff & Pfeiffer and he had a few interesting remarks about this topic. Initially, I just wanted to test a RC Prestige they had in stock, since I am/was desperate about getting a new instrument, at least a b-flat clarinet. He makes a point about a decent set-up instrument and that finding "your" instrument is not just about getting something different or more expensive.
Anyways, I'd still recommend the Yamahas and would'nt have bought a Buffet in the first place, had I known how much better the set-up out-of-the-box is on a Yamaha. Crazy to think that they're completely built in Japan and still quite affordable.
Best regards
Christian
Post Edited (2022-10-03 08:04)
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Author: MarkS
Date: 2022-10-03 18:18
Hello Christian,
You must have spoken to Wolfgang Lohff. Birgit Pfeiffer is his business partner and wife. About 6 months ago I spoke to him about looking for a replacement for my R13 A clarinet, since I was unhappy with articulation in the upper clarion. He discouraged me from going in that direction, and instead did some work on the tone holes that has helped quite a bit. He always provides thoughtful and reliable advice.
Best,
Mark
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Author: gwie
Date: 2022-10-04 09:01
Wolfgang did an awesome job on my last set of first-gen CSG's, with their LP Studio setup. Getting my current set of CSVR's done the same way when they visit my neck of the woods in the next two weeks!
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Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2022-10-05 19:33
Mark,
thanks for clearing that up. I'm really eager to take my instruments to Kopenhagen in the coming year and see how that turns out.
Another word on Yamaha Instruments: I've started playing the french horn 1 1/2 years ago (and that was a wild ride, too!), ended up getting a used 668 that must be at least 25 years old. The tech I gave it to really liked it and given its hefty use and many little dents, I've always received very positve Feedback on it's solid valve action and tone - and there's no chance a cheaper, chinese-made one would've made it that far.
Best regards
Christian
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Author: Reese Oller
Date: 2022-10-05 19:47
I've always wanted a CSVR. I loved it, and it was quite similar in sound to the student level 255 I've been playing the last 8 years (but with virtually none of the flaws!). Unfortunately, I am not and probably never will be able to purchase it, but I keep hoping that one will fall into my hands by random chance.
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