 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ruben
Date: 2017-02-08 00:58
I would be interested in surveying different opinions on this topic: opinions expressed by students and teachers alike. My personal experiences are as follows-seeing as everybody takes an intense interest in me. Ha ha! One teacher only took out his clarinet when he was totally exasperated with me and couldn't get through to me (my Italian was rudimentary). When he took his clarinet out of the case out of despair, I was torn between the knowledge that he was furious with me and knowing that I would rejoice in his absolutely heavenly playing (RIP Professore Cornetti). Another played all of the time, as this is the only time he ever practiced! Another-certainly the most famous of them-I never hear play a note. Students of the renowned Leon Russianoff told me they never heard him play a note. He had, I believe, given up playing at this point. Like in all things, I suppose a balance must be struck. Your opinions please? Those of students are, I would say, are even more important than those of teachers.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-02-08 03:21
I think demonstration is very important - there's only so much that words can convey whereas showing someone else how something is done does away with words as some things can't be explained or understood easily.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2017-02-08 05:49
The younger and less musically experienced the student is, the more demonstration is important. Russianoff was teaching a different level of student than most of us work with. Singing and verbal explication can go a long way with very advanced students. Students still forming their concepts of tone, articulation and phrasing need sometimes to hear what it's "s'posed to" sound like. So long as they are not given the impression that the way the teacher models a passage is the only possible way to do it.
When I was a much younger teacher and a good deal less student-centered in my approach, I tended, to my regret, to play *with* my students a great deal. One adult student student one day complained - he couldn't hear himself and my playing along was distracting him. I felt a little hurt at the time but went home afterward to think about it and realized he was right. I would, as a student, almost certainly have resented the constant accompaniment of another clarinet during my lessons. These days I only play with students when we're working on duets, which I think are valuable within limits. But I can't imagine, teaching my own students without ever modeling.
I was, by the way, saddened to read the bit about the teacher who only played when he was exasperated and furious with you. I don't think there's any place for a teacher's reacting to a student's playing that way.
Karl
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Author: ruben
Date: 2017-02-08 10:45
Karl: Thank you for your eminently sensible comments. I believe that playing along with a student has its place, as long as is not done too often and doesn't last too long. It can be a good exercise for him or her; to learn how to listen carefully to see if he's absolutely in tune and together. It also teaches them to correct themselves instead of being corrected. As for my teacher who only took out his clarinet when he was exasperated with me....those were other days; days when teachers were dictatorial and were supposed to inspire fear. The bad old days!
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2017-02-08 11:37
Speaking as a student...
A teacher should do what helps the student. If the teacher is concerned with the student they won't play too much or too little. I had a teacher when I was young who played all the time because he liked to hear himself, He was an extra with a pro symphony. He was nice, but I can't remember learning anything from him whatsoever, he was too self absorbed. On the other hand another teacher got mad at me for some unknown reason, and I knew he didn't want to teach me anymore because he stopped playing altogether and just sat and pouted. LOL. Both of them failed as teachers. My best teachers always had their horns ready, but didn't necessarily play a lot. They did play to help me understand things. You can talk about music all day, but you have to hear it. Like Karl said, I'm sure this is more important when you are starting.
One of the most important lessons I learned in 9 years of college, my years of studying music, and work, is that it's usually a waste of time to bother with a teacher who is not interested in you. Obviously, you should try to be open to whatever people have to offer. You can learn something from everyone. Having a choice though, if someone either doesn't take an interest in you, or you don't improve, find someone else. That doesn't mean that a good teacher will be exactly the way you imagine they will be, or that it will always be "fun", or that it will happen right away. If I had to do it again though, I would not spend any unnecessary time with a teacher in an unproductive relationship. It's ok if you don't get on, they're just people too. Just because someone is a teacher and has a reputation doesn't mean they are a good teacher, or that they are good for you personally. There are great teachers out there, and great teachers for you personally. It's like doctors, if you aren't getting better, find another doctor. It's not necessarily anyone's fault if it's not the right fit. You know what you need.
My greatest musical regret: When I was a freshman in college the bassoon professor heard me play clarinet and asked me on several occassions to take lessons with him. I was incredulous, but he was dead serious. I was already taking two instruments, and thought it unpractical. In hindsight, what would have been practical was to dump saxophone and learn bassoon. He actually ASKED me to take lessons with him. Of course I don't know how it would have worked out, but knowing what I know now, I realize it was a great opportunity for a multitude of reasons.
- Matthew Simington
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Author: concertmaster3
Date: 2017-02-08 17:43
I do a mix of both and prefer a mix of both (as both student and teacher).
In my students' early stages, I tend to play more, giving them a good model of what to expect. I usually move them into playing more, and for sure playing first without me to encourage reading, after a month or so. When I play along with my students, it's usually softly to hear their sound, but I am playing to keep them true to pitch and time while also serving as a model for tone.
As the student gets more advanced, as part of their lessons I encourage sight reading by playing duets with them. This again encourages them to be aware of pitch, rhythm and timbre all while sight reading. Of course these students hear me play less, but I still demonstrate when needed.
In all cases, I seek to do what is best for that particular student at that particular time, but the previous statements are an overall guide to what my students usually need at a certain time.
My teaching styles often come from what helped me learn the most as a student. During my bachelor's and master's, my teacher would have me play a lot, with him interjecting in when needed, and then we'd sight read duets, which taught me how to match timbre and blend (We'd also play duets when I wasn't prepared for a lesson...lol). My doctoral teachers were about the same, but with a focus on how to become a more effective teacher.
Ron Ford
Woodwind Specialist
Performer/Teacher/Arranger
http://www.RonFordMusic.com
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2017-02-08 18:02
Whenever I think about this topic, though, it makes me wish I had not through my life so far become so germ-aware.
When I was a student my teachers would demonstrate when needed not on their own instruments, which were often not unpacked, but on mine. They would simply reach for my clarinet, which I would hand to them, and they would play the problem passage on it. As a result, they quickly could tell whether the problem was the player or the reed or even a recently developed leak or bent key.
If they could play the passage easily on my setup, I needed to fix something I was doing.
If they couldn't, I felt vindicated that it wasn't a problem with me but with the horn.
I can't do this comfortably as a teacher any more (I did when I was younger). I've become too risk-averse where communicable illness is concerned as I get older. The risk, of course goes both ways - I could be incubating something and pass it to a student before I even suspect I'm getting sick myself.
Karl
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2017-02-08 18:33
The first question to ask is whether the focus is on the teacher, their ideas, ego, and so on, or on the student. Once the focus is on the student, it depends on where the student's at and what they need. Some things, especially voicing and details in fast passages, can be very hard to get without experiencing them up close, but once the student has gotten the idea, demonstrating becomes less important. Still, it's good to provide reminders of where the student needs to get, and the fact that they're not there yet. Best teacher I had never played, but I could hear him on Deutsche Grammophon whenever I needed to, so it wasn't as important as it might otherwise have been. He sang sometimes. Always had the feeling that what and how I was playing right then was the most important thing in his life.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2017-02-08 18:39
Karl: The great French cellist, Paul Tortelier, always demonstrated on his student's instrument for two reasons: the instrument was warm and in tune. Second-and perhaps more important still-the student unconsciously always thought his teacher sounded so much better than him because he had a far superior instrument. Tortelier proved to his student that it was possible to get a good sound using the student's, usually more modest, gear. As for germs, I demonstrate on my student's instrument, but use my mouthpiece and barrel; the barrel along with the mouthpiece in order to make for a quicker change.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: ruben
Date: 2017-02-08 18:47
Dorje, Might we know who this teacher is/was? -if it isn't too personal. Seeing as your praise of him or her is so high, I sure the latter wouldn't take offense. The person sounds like a very inspiring teacher. You emphasized-and rightly so-the importance of singing. This is much neglected. With one teacher I had, if I couldn't sing the passage to his satisfaction, he wouldn't let me play it! I learned a lot through this teaching technique.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2017-02-08 20:14
My principal teachers were Eric Simon, 3/12 years, Joe Allard 0ne year for bass clarinet, and Leon Russianoff. 3 years. None of them ever played a note for me. I usually played duets with my younger students and on occasion to demonstrate something but rearly with my college students unless I felt it absolutely neccassary to make a point. I encouraged them to come to my recitals and chamber music concerts, which were many, to hear me play. As well as hearing many other clarinetests as well of course.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Cappuccino
Date: 2017-02-08 21:42
A teacher should only play when it is entirely necessary.
During my many lessons with Yehuda Gilad, he only played my clarinet *once*
Alexander May
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFZta2RG4iM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh8O5DC4Tqs
"Looking at art, you're looking at the result of a philosophy." - John Emmett
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Author: pewd
Date: 2017-02-08 21:56
Similar to what Karl said - the less experienced the student, the more I play. The older they get, I play less and less, e.g., much past 6th grade, I don't play very much for them.
The best lesson experience is for them to play for me, and I comment on what I'm hearing, and make suggestions for them to improve.
Advanced students, I'll play along when they're sight reading, to check tuning, how well they read style marks, etc. This is only a small portion of the lesson.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2017-02-09 08:43
Play if you need to demonstrate something that can not be expressed any other way.
If the weather is good, I'll have my Clarinet out, if not, I'll wipe the student's Mouthpiece with an Alcohol swab, and play theirs no problem. Then they get to see that their Clarinet can sound just as good as a MoBa for 1/15th the price.
(no, not reality, but it does show them that their Clarinet works just fine, and it's hard work that will make them sound good, not just a sweet Clarinet.)
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: wkleung
Date: 2017-02-09 13:51
I don't always bring my instrument to the lessons (I take public transportation in Hong Kong and prefer not have to carry my oboe or bassoon). The more junior the student is, the more I demonstrate. The advanced ones (or the smart ones) can get by with me singing and explaining. I find myself paying the most attention to everything they do if I don't have an instrument in my hands.
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2017-02-09 18:17
Ruben: Eduard Brunner. He's apparently still teaching in Saarbrücken, after retiring from the Bavarian Radio in Munich. Fantastic musician.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2017-02-10 00:39
Thank you Dorje! I heard him here in Paris at the Théâtre de la Ville. And then he is on many recordings with the violinist, Gidon Kremmer. Did he play a Boehm clarinet, by the way? It sounds as though he did. If he did, why was that?
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2017-02-10 02:48
When I studied with him, he played old--I don't know how old, but at least '50s and possibly pre-war--Buffets. They had more wood on them than modern ones do, but he didn't say anything about the bore. This was '77 and '78, and it was quite unusual for a major German orchestra.
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