 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: LeftHandedClarinetist
Date: 2017-01-27 07:47
I have realized I was using the wrong embouchure my whole clarinet playing career (8 years) and I can't seem to fix it. Whenever I see people play the clarinet, they only have their lower lip (the pink part) over their bottom teeth. I on the other hand, have my bottom lip AND the soft flesh (.5-75 cm) in and then I put my mouth on the reed/mp. I've noticed that yes this works well and I have good control, but after intense playing, it gets SUPER sore. It hurts. I've been using Strength 4 traditional and I feel like it helped with the ability to play the altisimo notes. However, I have a big problem:
When I try to use the proper embouchure, it does NOT work. It either is very "squeaky", not focused at all, and I'm unable to play the higher register tonguing without squeaking in between. I'm confused on how to play and I really want to be able to do well on my audition into my school's symphonic wind ensemble.
Also, my parents and I are working something out to get a new instrument, deciding among these ones:
YCL-450
YCL-650
E-12F
E-13
E11
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Author: SonicManEXE
Date: 2017-01-27 08:32
Hi there,
Playing with double-lip embouchure is actually how many clarinetists play. If it works for you, then it works for you. A reason why your lip may be so sore after playing is because size 4 reeds are very hard for most players. I would try moving down to 3 or 3 1/2 and see if the soreness goes away, or, at the very least, isn't as severe after playing. If it really hurts that much and you want to transition to a "traditional" embouchure, talk to a private instructor or someone you know like your band director so you can learn the proper way to set up that kind of embouchure. If you've been playing double-lip for eight years then it's going to take some time to get used to a new way of playing, but it will happen if you practice and give it time. Just remember that there is no "correct" embouchure and whichever one works best for you is the one you should go with.
As far as instruments go, you will get many different answers on this forum. I don't know what you play on now, but I personally don't recommend Yamahas because on every single one I try, no matter what model, my open G is very airy and the hiss sound can be heard sneaking through in any range of the horn--the exact problem with the student model Yamaha I own. Of course, that's just me. You should go with what works for you. I highly recommend, if possible, going to the store and trying them out before buying one.
Jared
Ft. Lauderdale & Tampa, FL
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2017-01-27 08:34
LeftHandedClarinetist wrote:
> When I try to use the proper embouchure, it does NOT work. It
> either is very "squeaky", not focused at all, and I'm unable to
> play the higher register tonguing without squeaking in between.
So those results suggest that you aren't using a "proper embouchure." It sounds like you're trying to imitate what you think you're seeing when other people play but missing some important part.
It's tempting to say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." You say you have good control and that the way you've been doing things "works well." I am a little surprised that, with that much beyond your lip inside your mouth, you aren't having some trouble playing altissimo notes in tune. But "SUPER sore" is a red flag.
Without seeing what you're actually doing, it's hard to know what you're changing when you try to play with a "proper" - more traditional - embouchure, but I'd bet you're changing something more than just the amount of lower lip being drawn over your teeth.
Try starting with your normal embouchure formation. Play enough to establish that everything is under control. Then let only a little of the fleshy part out - don't go all out all at once. As you do this, carefully avoid changing anything else - don't change the shape of your lips, don't move the mouthpiece farther in or out. Play a few notes and if it sound OK, play for a few minutes that way. Then repeat the process to let a little more out. The important thing, since you say your control is good with the embouchure you're used to, is that *nothing else* changes. You may feel a tendency, which you'll need to resist, to hold onto the clarinet with your embouchure differently with less lip inside. Allowing that to change may explain the poor result you've been getting.
If the soreness is irritation of the outside part of the lip that the reed rests on, just moving the lip may prevent it. But if the soreness is also on the underside where your teeth touch the lip, you may be biting, which may be a separate issue (or not).
IMO, you'll be better off if you can get some of that lip moved out and get your teeth closer to the edge of the red part, if only because that much lip inside can interfere with your tongue's access to the reed and can, possibly, damp the reed's vibration a little more that you want. But you need to do that without causing a major disruption to the rest of the facial muscles that form the seal around the mouthpiece and support for the reed.
Karl
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Author: LeftHandedClarinetist
Date: 2017-01-27 08:48
Thank you for the good advise. It seems to me that when I "tongue" I'm really just hitting the inside of the tip of the lips which actually then touches the read to stop it. I can tongue really fast. I also found this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/232218898836
It seems to be very good and with my "research" the golden era wood was superb compared to that of today. However, I'm confused on the Evette brand. It's Paris, it looks like a Buffet (markings)...so what is it?
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2017-01-27 13:23
SonicManEXE wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> Playing with double-lip embouchure is actually how many
> clarinetists play.
Did I misunderstand your question? I didn't think you were describing double lip (both lips covering top as well as bottom teeth). I read that were talking about taking a lot more lower lip than other players you see.
Karl
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Author: Doug Leach
Date: 2017-01-27 18:18
LeftHandedClarinetist wrote:
>I also found this:
>http://www.ebay.com/itm/232218898836
>It seems to be very good and with my "research" the golden era wood was >superb compared to that of today. However, I'm confused on the Evette brand. >It's Paris, it looks like a Buffet (markings)...so what is it?
Buffet changed their branding about 1980. Prior to that the professional horn we call the R13 was simply a Buffet. Their lower level student horn was the Evette, one of which you've found, and their intermediate horn was the Evette Schaeffer. Some of the Evette and some of the Evette Schaeffer production was outsourced to either Schreiber or Malerne. The consensus seems to be that the Buffet made models were better. The one you've found was made by Buffet. At some point they added a plastic variant of the Evette.
When I was a student some in our section had Buffets, and some had Evette Schaeffers. For myself and most others, we couldn't hear a difference in our playing between the two. All of the models had the same bore, and mostly the same keywork. If the seller has done a decent job on the overhaul, it could be a quite good clarinet. It seems he allows returns, so if it's not what you're looking for, you can return it.
Doug
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Author: JasonOlney
Date: 2017-01-27 21:32
First- Above all, be patient. You've been playing with one style of embouchure for 8 years. Your body is trained to take that shape the moment you touch your clarinet. Any embouchure work should probably start away from the clarinet and always with a mirror. You can use a straw or your pinky or thumb as a mouthpiece surrogate. Give yourself time to make many small steps over many days and allow yourself to experience the different embouchure for a while before deciding to change.
Second- Get a private teacher. Even the most dedicated students can make simple mistakes that they follow into poor habits. A teacher, even a mediocre one, can help with some objectivity.
Third- Sound, comfort and stability are going to be your guide posts. You should always listen to your sound and your body. A strong and efficient embouchure can play for long periods without pain. Fatigue is one thing but pain is a sign from your body that something is wrong.
Four- Barring a very closed-facing mouthpiece, that reed strength is almost certainly too strong. Along with possibly using too much lower lip, you're likely also biting with your jaw (to wrestle the reed). I actually start my long tones and warm-ups on very, very soft reeds to ensure that my lips, not my jaw, are controlling the reed. As I warm up, I switch to gradually stiffer reeds. My strongest are slightly heavy 3.5s or 3.5+s (Rue Lepic).
Five- None of us on here know anything about what's going on with your embouchure beyond fuzzy impressions. You can post pictures and audio files if you want more detailed suggestions but you're far better off getting a teacher for even a few weeks for in-person assistance.
Six- Now that I've starting making a list, I'm not sure how to stop.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2017-01-27 22:05
What mouthpiece *are* you using?
Karl
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Author: RKing
Date: 2017-01-27 23:20
The first thing I would suggest is for you to slow down on the purchasing idea. As much as I always like that "new horn sound", I don't think any of the horns on your list will sound much better than your current model until you get your embouchure squared away.
I am coming back to clarinet from years of sax playing and it was mortifying for me to stick my beautiful R-13 into my mouth again and barely get a 'squeak' out of it. It took a week of work (and a few clarinet lessons!) for me to adjust my embouchure for the clarinet.
I think you should take that money you want to spend on a new horn and use it for a few lessons instead.
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2017-01-29 10:31
Surprised no one's mentioned it yet, but Harold Wright played double lip, and was an extremely great player in all respects. Had a master class with him once, and his advice was to look at how far your upper lip hangs down in comparison to your teeth. If you can see substantial upper front teeth when you relax your mouth and look into the mirror, then maybe double lip isn't for you. (It's definitely not for me, wishful thinking notwithstanding.) An important thing to watch out for with single lip, though, is biting, and anything that can impart weird vibrations to the mouthpiece and reed. Double lip avoids that, because you can't get away with biting; it hurts too much, too soon. If you're squeaking, you're probably biting. The folks here who teach a lot can suggest exercises for developing a non-biting embouchure. Don't buy anything expensive until you've worked with the exercises!
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