 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2016-12-17 16:36
People often describe Mozart's music as " displace one note and there would be diminishment. Displace one phrase and the structure would fall". In the normal A clarinet version of his concerto, so many bars have been altered, thus I wonder how many of you use Basset to play this work?
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2016-12-18 02:22
" displace one note and there would be diminishment. " I thought it was common to improvise and embellish during Mozart's time. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Steve Ocone
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Author: mddds
Date: 2016-12-18 05:15
i do also.
would be difficult for me to go back the standard.
as an addendum, it would be interesting to see which basset clarinet people use.
i have a RC Prestige.
i didn't have much in the way of trialing instruments - based on my research, it ended up having to choose between buffet and fox.
-CK
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Author: bassclarinet101 ★2017
Date: 2016-12-18 15:48
I would if I could! I like the contour of the lines better when listening to recordings, and would love to perform it that way.
-Daniel
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Author: ruben
Date: 2016-12-18 16:52
A way of rephrasing the question is: how many of you can afford a basset clarinet? ha ha! On a more serious level: seeing as the original Mozart manuscript was lost, how can one be sure what exactly was written for the basset clarinet register?
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2016-12-18 18:49
I worked on a recent vintage Selmer Basset. It wasn't easy to finger all of the notes.
Steve Ocone
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2016-12-18 19:11
I have a Ridenour basset clarinet that I occasionally play. Also I'm currently working on making a basset extension for a Buffet A clarinet. Unfortunately I highly doubt that I will be performing the concerto anytime soon so for me the basset clarinet is just a curiosity.
-Jdbassplayer
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-12-18 19:30
I had a Selmer 10S basset clarinet back in the '80s - nice sounding instrument, but it wasn't without its faults.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2016-12-18 20:41
So a following question, which design of basset do you like. On german system clarinets, all extra basset notes are controlled by right hand thumb (usually 5 keys) while on french system usually there are several extra pinky keys.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-12-18 20:59
The Selmer had LH low D and low Eb levers (the low Eb lever being to the right of the LH Ab/Eb lever), RH low Eb and Db keys (with the Eb on the top level and the Db where you'd normally find a low Eb key) and right thumb low D and C keys. The LH F/C key also doubled to close the low C key as well (but not any of the other basset keys).
The same layout besides the LH low Eb lever (also seen on full Mazzeos) was also used on the C and D series basses and basset horns. The earlier basset horns based on Buffet's old design had a LH low D key where you'd expect a LH Ab/Eb lever and a thumb low D key, but they changed that and put the LH low D key under the LH F/C key and added an extra thumb key for low C.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: mddds
Date: 2016-12-19 07:25
jdbassplayer,
my top joint on my buffet basset A has a vent key just below the register key, so it is not identical to the standard A upper joint. i'm not sure about the bore sizes compared to the standard clarinet.
i'm not sure if any other models are like this.
my repairman explained the rationale of this vent to me, but it went a little over my head.
i'm curious to know if your ridenour basset mechanism (including any modifications in the top joint) is similar to the buffet?
thanks
-CK
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2016-12-19 07:31
Attachment: IMG_1668.JPG (861k)
CK,
My Ridenour doesn't have the "Stubbins" mechanism that your Buffet has. However, on my instrument the throat Bb is actually quite clear. My instrument was just a standard A clarinet originally, but the previous owner bought the extra basset joint for it so it doubles as a basset clarinet.
-Jdbassplayer
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Author: mddds
Date: 2016-12-19 10:26
Jdbassplayer,
wow. thanks for the insight (and the picture)!
i wish i could use my standard top joint for both.
i compared the bottom joints. i don't know about your instrument, but i feel that the keys on my basset feel very slightly frameshifted towards the upper joint. i'm wondering if that allows easier reach for the additional RH pinky keys.
i used to accidentally hit the RH sliver key alot on basset.
yours has the thumb low C key as well?
too bad i didn't consult this forum before i bought my instrument.
-CK
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-12-19 11:40
The Ridenour basset clarinet has the same style mechanism as the Leblanc LL basset.
One thing I found odd was the Leblanc basset had an entirely one piece body going by their literature - there was no middle socket ring, so that must've been a feat to make the entire body in one piece. Considering their basset horns and low C basses have a two piece lower joint, finding a single piece of granadilla that length (far longer than a low C bass lower joint) without any flaws must've been a challenge. I suppose if flaws were found, the billet could be cut down and used for other joints or barrels if it was really bad.
And it's also a shame they didn't add a LH Ab/Eb lever.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2016-12-19 11:41)
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Author: eddiec ★2017
Date: 2016-12-19 17:19
I briefly tried a Leblanc basset. It was of conventional two piece design. There was a single thumb touch for low C. All the other extended notes were on the pinkie fingers. Fox's thumb rollers look like they might work better, but I haven't tried them.
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2016-12-19 21:37
Since the question wasn't specific, which instrument is favored for other Mozart compositions, particularly he Clarinet Quintet and the Clarinet Trio? Are there alternative versions of basset / regular clarinet parts for those?
How about the wind serenades?
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Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2016-12-19 23:46
For the quintet, Breitkopf & Härtel has published a basset version (KM2289).
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Author: donald
Date: 2016-12-20 15:30
After hearing my wife play it on a period basset clarinet, it feels a bit stink playing it on a modern "ordinary" clarinet to be honest. If you haven't heard this on a Lotz copy (with the bell that, yes indeed, looks like a bong) you must try to asap. The basset notes sound much nicer than on a modern clarinet with basset extension (though I suppose the player can have a lot to do with that) so I can't imagine I'll ever bother buying one of those but just go straight for the Lotz...
dn
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Author: DSatz
Date: 2017-01-02 09:07
In the late 1970s I commissioned the late Edward Planas to build a basset clarinet RH joint to use with the LH joint of my series 9* Mazzeo-model A clarinet. I performed the Mozart concerto a couple of times in Boston in 1981 with that instrument.
I think it's clear enough that the Concerto (and the Quintet, and the aria "Parto, Parto" from Clemenza) should be played on instruments with range to written low C. But if someone has a musically convincing way of playing those pieces on regular clarinets, certainly that's even more important.
In the first movement of the concerto, for example, there's a harmonically intense passage where the printed score goes into a kind of musical shorthand, with four consecutive whole notes in the solo part (bar 216 ff.). If you're familiar with Mozart's late piano concertos, the kind of intense, fiery passagework that he expects at such a moment will be obvious. But entire generations of clarinettists have been so disconnected from the music that they stop the action and play those four whole notes literally. I think Mozart would have groaned in utter despair and disbelief at that prospect, if he could have imagined it.
--best regards
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2017-01-02 18:49
DSatz, I'm not following you. What does your final paragraph have to do with the first two? It's not about the instrumental range, but there's that "for example".
About those four whole notes, it's tricky to draw an analogy with the piano concerti (with which I am familiar). On a piano the sound of those whole notes would decay; on a wind instrument there are other possibilities. K.622 seems more vocally oriented than most the piano concerti.
Hmm. I don't hear the section containing the whole notes as "fiery" - but then, I've never tried to. Ha! It's worth some thought experimenting.
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2017-01-03 02:06
David Satz wrote:
>> In the first movement of the concerto, for example, there's a harmonically intense passage where the printed score goes into a kind of musical shorthand, with four consecutive whole notes in the solo part (bar 216 ff.). If you're familiar with Mozart's late piano concertos, the kind of intense, fiery passagework that he expects at such a moment will be obvious. But entire generations of clarinettists have been so disconnected from the music that they stop the action and play those four whole notes literally. I think Mozart would have groaned in utter despair and disbelief at that prospect, if he could have imagined it.>>
The truth could hardly be more different.
It's not four consecutive whole notes: it's three, plus a downbeat answered by the orchestra by another three notes, and then continuing.
If you understand how the Mozart clarinet concerto is constructed – namely, from Mozart's varying of his interpretation of the number 3: intervals of a third, three registers of the basset clarinet, moitives of three notes either jumping up a third and returning or melodically filling in the gap in the third, etc etc – then you can see the power of the almost mystical isolation of this version.
Look again.
Tony
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2017-01-03 20:30
Of course, what I wrote above is rubbish. I thought you were talking about bars 194ff, because the whole note/quarter note language confused me in the middle of the night, and I didn't have a score to hand.
Others have also thought that bars 216-219 require filling in. I don't find that myself, because I hear the orchestral part as motivic (the three-structure) and therefore yearningly highlighted by the sparseness of the clarinet part. Both orchestra and clarinet then double speed and energy in 220 to greater effect. I've written before about Mozart's contrasted juxtapositions.
Sorry for my mistake.
Tony
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