 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ruben
Date: 2016-11-28 13:51
In teaching, I've been confronted more than once with the problem of dyslexia in students. Some of them have been diagnosed as dyslexic, so I'm aware that they may have trouble reading music. Others-often adult students-have never realized they were mildly or seriously dyslexic. A give-away is playing many wrong notes in a piece that is well within the student's level. Ironically, some people that suffer from dyslexia when reading the written word, have no rhythmic or reading difficulties when reading and playing music. The same areas of the brain are not used in these different functions.
Have any of you had experience with this medical problem?If so, how did you cope with it?
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2016-11-28 16:18
I showed this to my wife, who is a retired teacher with a specialization in dyslexia. Her comments correspond with your own observations. The techniques of teaching dyslexic students are fairly well documented and are too complex to cover here, but there is a great deal of literature concerning the subject. See
http://dyslexia.yale.edu/
as a good place to start. Dr Sally Shaywitz is worth checking.
Tony F.
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2016-11-28 22:59
Ruben, you ask an interesting question. I've researched this subject, but have never found any solutions that do it all. There are different types of dyslexia, and a strategy that helps one student might not do much for another.
Some have suggested placing colored plastic overlays over the printed material, and I've found that it does help some students. The stark contrast between the white paper and the printed notes and/or words is an obstacle for some, and overlays can help reduce visual stress. It might be worth trying an assortment of colors to see which one works best.
For younger students, it might also help to enlarge the paper(s). I've had some success with this approach.
Finally, there are some who struggle because they need to wear glasses, but don't. I once had a young student who had a hard time, but showed quite an improvement once she started wearing her glasses. Many others (I'm thinking age 40+ adults here) don't have the right lenses for music reading. Some do fine with a pair of standard bifocals or progressive lenses, but I really like my mid-range glasses which make music reading much easier.
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Author: Elifix
Date: 2016-11-29 04:32
I had students with dyslexia, some mild and severe.
I notice that coloured papers will help a lot. Blue colour work for one and the other prefer other colours. Back in college, there was a very good violinist whom printed her scores on A3 paper in very mild pink.
Others simply required A3 on white paper (usually for very mild cases).
The specialist teacher I met advised that usually white is a headache for them.
They usually don't have an issue with musical understanding on notation or rhythms. It's a case of reading difficulty.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-11-29 22:24
What a GREAT topic. I hope a lot of people post on this topic.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: tucker ★2017
Date: 2016-11-29 22:55
It seems most of the comments have to do with what the students see, or don't see, on the printed page of music.... a visual malfunction, if you will.
Dyslexia can manifest itself in a multitude of areas including motor skills and reactions. I have a slight form of dyslexia (I don't remember the term that was used eons ago) which, at times, affects motor coordination between the right and left hands. I sometimes have an issue confusing the B and C, as well as lower F and E (right/left pinkies). I see the C... .know it's a C... yet play a B. It doesn't seem to affect other fingers other than my pinkies.
This started years ago when I first started playing the clarinet. As a kid, I was fortunate to have attended the lab school at a major university so I was diagnosed quicker than most with similar afflictions. I never read letters backwards or see letters reversed as many with dyslexia do. Mine is not a visual anomaly.
I knew a kid who had to face north before he could determine which way was right or left. Somehow, he always knew what direction north was.
I have learned over the years to "auto correct" in a split second, but it slips through from time to time.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2016-11-30 00:29
This is still a really poorly understood a subject. Specialists are still trying hard to figure out *what* is happening from the learner's point of view in order to provide effective accommodations and, I don't think, they have even made a beginning on understanding *why* it happens. Dyslexia is often described as difficulty in perceiving (not necessarily seeing) symbols in their correct sequence. In the case of music notation, it may (or may not) involve inability to correctly recognize the position of a notehead on the staff (spatial deficit) as well as a sequencing deficit of some kind.
I imagine that the exact distortion the learner experiences is very dependent on whatever may act as triggers. If bright light or high contrast is a trigger, the colored films may help. I had students during my school teaching years who did respond to them, and the previous comment is correct that some colors worked better than others *for specific* students.
Some kids can't make any sense at all of the staff or the placement of notes on it. *Sometimes* writing the letter names above the notes can help (it isn't *necessarily* laziness or lack of practice that keeps those kids from reading notes on a staff). I taught one girl who didn't respond very well to any visual aids I tried , but she turned out to have a really sharp ear and, if I played something for her or recorded it for her to listen to at home, she could play it back correctly with almost no help.
Of course, accommodations like letter names above the notes don't help with rhythm notation. And having a student learn by ear will probably be crippling eventually when he or she tries to play in an ensemble and has parts to play that aren't melodic or very memorable.
Dyslexia is part of the whole realm of "perceptual deficit" disorders, and I've seen very little evidence that even the teachers who specialize in teaching to these problems really can differentiate the specific perceptual areas causing the end result. My best advice with a school-age student would be to join forces with the student's learning disability specialist(s) at school, if there are such people there. Maybe they have already been able to identify strategies that are effective. At worst, if he/she/they are willing to help, you will have more experience being thrown into the problem than you can bring on your own. I had the advantage (if the specialist was good) of direct access, working in the school myself.
This won't help much with adult learners. With luck, they're self-aware enough, even if they've never had a specific diagnosis, to have an idea of what helps them in other areas. Music processing indeed makes use of different brain functions than verbal processing, but decoding written symbols has logically to overlap, whether the symbols are musical or literal.
Karl
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Author: ruben
Date: 2016-11-30 13:59
Thank you Karl and all of you for your very studied, articulate and insightful comments. I thought getting learners to use their ears more instead of relying on their eyes would help, but this also proves a major problem. People suffering from dyslexia seem to have more trouble memorizing pieces than those that don't have this handicap. Another hurdle seems to be key signatures. I have an adult student that has to write the accidentals in before each note. He claims this is because he started the clarinet late in life and never had proper scale practice, but I reckon it has something to do with his dyslexia-I've seen other aspects of it in him-that he doesn't seem to be aware of suffering from. I might add that that there seems to exist a hereditary element: dyslexia seems to run in the family. This would have been a great subject for the neurologist Oliver Sacks, who died last year. He was also very keen on musical perception and therapy.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Luuk ★2017
Date: 2016-11-30 18:14
For text some special fonts were developed for people with dyslexia. See for instance https://www.dyslexiefont.com/en/. Scientific support for this solution is presented on the site (note: there is some dispute about the evidence). Another solution can be found here: http://opendyslexic.org/.
I asked the designer of the Dyslexie font about the idea of developing a special font for music notation. When I get a reaction I will post an update.
Regards,
Luuk
Philips Symphonic Band
The Netherlands
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Author: SarahC
Date: 2016-12-05 02:58
Emphasise ear training, and don't worry about music c reading is one option. Lots of listening to the pieces they are going to learn. At the end of the day, is it worth the stress of reading when they can have the beauty of playing
Photocopy all the lyric onto blue paper is another that sometimes works
Doing music theory separate from the instrument, but keeping instrument time by ear is another option...
They are the ways I have handled it. But I am not an expert... Just been teaching since my pet dinosaur died
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Author: kdk
Date: 2016-12-05 04:41
SarahC wrote:
> Emphasise ear training, and don't worry about music c reading
> is one option. Lots of listening to the pieces they are going
> to learn. At the end of the day, is it worth the stress of
> reading when they can have the beauty of playing
>
Yes, if among the student's musical goals is to play in a a band or orchestra, maybe at school. Rote learning of inner parts in a band or orchestra texture is possible, but almost certainly impractical for an entire concert program.
If the learner only wants to play by himself, rote learning is an option, but it is ultimately limiting. It may be more satisfying to an adult learner who has no ensemble aspirations.
Karl
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Author: SarahC
Date: 2016-12-05 11:00
Karl, I can tell u I have a friend who is blind, and yet plays in ensemble regularly. He listens to his part and has memorised it very quickly. He has been blind for 30 years, and got his degree in music first. So he wasn't learning to play while blind. I was always amazed that the conductor would tell him the starting note and before the first rehearsal was over he had memorised everything he had to play.
I have had students with severe disabilities that were undiagnosed, and yet were able to develop their ear to that level that they could pretty much play anything adultery hearing it once or twice.
It all depends on the student. If they feel they want to read, then they will find a way. If reading is so difficult (in English and music) then it would be better for them to be able to enjoy playing by ear, and not give up because of the strain.
Cough cough... I even know an accomplished performer who cannot easily read music. And she once said to me "oh good, u know it already, u can play it" referring to a piano accompaniment. I won't name this performer, as they are still in the scene.
My point is, while not ideal, it can be done. And for some people it is a necessity.
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Author: Luuk ★2017
Date: 2016-12-05 12:57
As indicated above, I have asked the developer of the Dyslexie- font, Christian Boer, if he sees possibilities to develop an equivalent music font.
I received his answer the next day. He writes that it I'm not the first one who comes with this idea to him. He also adds the remark that he can't read music himself and 'is not very musical'. Nevertheless, it might be possible for him to develop a better readable font but he needs to start investigations and tests with people suffering from dyslexia. Then, he would develop a solution which needs more testing and validation.
It might take more than a year to complete such a project. That is, a man-year of full time work for which some form of financing should be found (to pay for income, facilities, resources...). He doesn't think someone is interested enough to provide that lot of money.
He ends with the suggestion that dyslectic musicians might learn to play by ear. And that seems common practice, as discussed above.
Regards,
Luuk
Philips Symphonic Band
The Netherlands
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Author: ruben
Date: 2016-12-05 15:27
Luuk. Thank you for researching this. Playing by ear and by heart? By all means! The only trouble is that people suffering from dyslexia also seem to have trouble memorizing music. At least, that is what I have found in my very limited experience of dealing with this difficulty. As we know, it's not just a visual handicap. Some forms of it can affect vocabulary in speaking; rhythm in making music.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: kdk
Date: 2016-12-05 18:05
SarahC wrote:
> Karl, I can tell u I have a friend who is blind, and yet
> plays in ensemble regularly. He listens to his part and has
> memorised it very quickly.
>
> I have had students with severe disabilities that were
> undiagnosed, and yet were able to develop their ear to that
> level that they could pretty much play anything adultery
> hearing it once or twice.
>
I completely agree that, if the student is able to develop this level of facility with rote learning by ear and memory, it can be a substitute for reading, though obviously not sight-reading in an ensemble. But blindness is not dyslexia. "Severe disabilities" is a very broad umbrella, much broader than dyslexia itself, including a wide variety of neural and developmental deficits, not necessarily those specific to dyslexia.
> It all depends on the student.
Yes! The solution depends on the student and what his or her specific disability is. As Ruben said in his initial post, some dyslexic students have no difficulty reading music. He asked about ways to help those who do.
> If they feel they want to read,
> then they will find a way.
Maybe, but that's a different issue. Ruben's initial question had to do with finding ways to *help* them read - not leaving them to find ways on their own. If there are ways we can help, it seems important that we try to use them.
> Cough cough... I even know an accomplished performer who
> cannot easily read music. And she once said to me "oh good, u
> know it already, u can play it" referring to a piano
> accompaniment. I won't name this performer, as they are still
> in the scene.
>
There are many blind musicians, some quite well-known, who can't "read" visually and many others who don't read music for unspecified reasons. We could all name some of them. Not being able to read in the normal way isn't the issue Ruben brought up, it is specifically ways to help dyslexic students in finding ways to deal with their issues.
Karl
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Author: SarahC
Date: 2016-12-06 04:08
Sorry. I thought the OP was asking what we do personally. That is what I do personally. If I have a student that I believe has a diminished capacity for reading, for whatever reasons. And yes I used disability generally, as I have been teaching for more than twenty years and have a reputation for taking students other teachers want to get rid of for similar difficulties or sometimes just because of poor attitude!
If a student wants to read, I would persevere through the difficulty. But if they were finding it stressful, then I would focus on further ear development.
And my point with referring to the blind man I have performed with, that he could manage whole programs. Therefore it would also be possible for someone with reduced reading capacity. Albeit not ideal. But life isn't ideal. Therefore I wouldn't insist all students read. Although I do insist all students try to learn to read before deciding to divert our energies elsewhere.
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