 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-10-28 13:09
I went down to Buena Park, California today to the huge Yamaha factory. It was an enlightening experience as I spent a lot of time with Rory, playing a mess of horns. First off this place means business. The sound room to test horns is built to perfection. It's just not a room, but a room designed by sound engineers so when playing you can really hear well. In comparison it is pretty much like sitting in Severance Hall in Cleveland. You simply can hear so well. Yes I've played there!
I kind of figured they would stick me in a carpeted room about 4 feet by 4 feet where everything sounded dead. No way! This was perfection at its best.
I brought along 2 sets of Buffet R13's from the 60's and around 2013. I warmed up on the Buffets for about 10 minutes then went to the Yamaha's. I played the CSG's German bores and the CSVR's Bb and A clarinets. It took a few minutes to adjust to the keys, the barrels were switched around a bit and finally after playing some they felt GREAT. The upper registers were a breeze to hit all of the notes without forcing the notes, something you have to do a lot with pieces like the Beethoven's 6th when the clarinet goes to the high G. As a gifted player you always worry about this one note on R13 horns. Playing this same passage over and over on the Yamaha I never missed. It really put a smile on my face! That's why this piece is on orchestra auditions.
I also had some fun playing the Spohr Concerto that hits the high C. The Buffets all failed using my standard double lip embouchure and even going to a single lip they failed. With the Yamaha's no problem with a double lip.
As for the sound quality at first I preferred the Buffets, mainly the 1960's. But after playing around with barrels I found a very rich sound that pinged off of these walls. Just what people like Iggie Gennusa and Bob Marcellus looked for.
There were some very and I mean very minor issues with tuning and I will go back in a month or 2. They have a man there that will make a barrel for you from scratch and also adjust the the intonation. I'm not in a rush, because both horns are that close.
Unlike the new R13's they tune slightly higher, instead of 440. Yes you can get other barrels if needed.
I'll post again in a few months. Right now these horns work. There are no dead notes and the scales are very even. The keys are double silver plated, a new technique as discussed by Rory.
The CSG German bore is a straight bore. I liked the horn a lot, however I was much more comfortable with the CSVR's. The German bore was not dark at all. The barrel was just 58 mm's in length. This bothered me for one major reason, it will surely be hard to find barrels to play around with this clarinet. However it is a horn that must be tested.
The CSVR bores are a tad bigger compared to the earlier R13's. I actaully measured them within thousandths of an inch accuracy. I don't really have a negative or positive viewpoint on this yet.
Well I'm happy to say I'm a Yamaha player right now.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2016-11-19 11:00)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: seabreeze
Date: 2016-10-28 15:36
Yamahas are good clarinets. I just bought a used Yamaha SE(V) that I'm very happy with. You should try the SEV and the new (more expensive) SEV Artist models too before you make up your mind.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2016-10-28 15:39
I have been told by experts that the Yamaha clarinets have excellent intonation but do not project as well as Buffet and Backun clarinets.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed
Date: 2016-10-28 15:41
Yamaha makes some really well designed and very consistent instruments. Generally, those I have tried have excellent intonation and a very even response across the instrument. The old CS and CSV were very much like R13s in feel, but often noticeably better in those areas.
There are some custom barrel makers, including Clark Fobes who will make barrels for the CSG.
Post Edited (2016-10-28 20:05)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: gwie
Date: 2016-10-28 19:58
I have sets of both the CSG and CSVR, and enjoy playing them immensely.
The CSG's, both of which I had overhauled by Wolfgang Lohff, replaced my "Brannenized" set of Buffet R-13's which were really nice but some challenges with wrist discomfort from the weight of the A clarinet in particular saw the CSG as a welcome replacement (they are lighter and easier to hold up for a long period of time). I've tried a number of custom barrels on them including a Backun MoBa and it's nice to have some options although I opt to use the stock barrels most of the time. They've been my main instruments for almost a decade now.
I acquired a set of CSVR's last year, shortly after the NAMM show. For me, these are the real alternative to the R-13, as the playing experience will be more familiar for players coming from those instruments, and at a much more economical price point too. No problem projecting with these over an orchestra! I was able to get both a Bb and A for barely more than the cost of a single new Buffet Tradition! The fit and finish is superb, and the out-of-the-box consistency is really wonderful. A number of my private students, especially those who don't plan on majoring in music but still want a top-notch professional clarinet have been going to the CSVR. The savings allows them to invest in an excellent mouthpiece as well (and here's a plug for Brad Behn's Zinner models, Clark Fobes Nova, and the D'Addario Reserve lineup...great options all around for players of all shapes and sizes).
If I have any criticism, it's that it's hard to find their product locally in shops, in any numbers for comparison trials.
Post Edited (2016-10-28 19:59)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-10-28 22:24
I was pretty excited last night after writing to this board and found myself playing until about 7 AM this morning.
A bit more information. They use leather pads, so I was pretty nervous, not very excited at all, about the horns sealing and having leaks. To my relief. They are VERY tight and will hold a seal for 20 to 30 seconds. As some of you know and may remember I studied with Hans Moennig and felt that cork pads were the best and only way with the upper register. Well I have changed my mind. The leather pads somewhat warmed the sound. When I found the winning set the Yamaha's sounded as warm and sweet as the Buffets, with a better pitch. If Hans was alive today he'd be excited with these pads and very busy designing a perfect Moennig barrel just for the Yamaha's!!!
New Buffets out of the box, need $400 in repairs, because they leak so badly! Every Yamaha was perfect, ready to play, right out of the box.
Just a few comment from the posts above. I have to repeat this and I probably will have to continue to off and on. First off these horns are not dark sounding close up. Remember these words please - Close up. I'm not getting into mouthpieces and dark sounding mouthpieces and horns other than to say in a practice room they sound FANTASTIC. Trust me here. In Severance Hall these dark sounds won't carry, but a brighter clarinet sound WILL mellow out and sound warm after about 10 to 20 feet away. So sometime Dark is DEAD in a hall. Just be careful and have your friends, the conductor, lots of people hear you on these dark setups in halls with a full group playing, before you fork over a lot of money.
Bob Marcellus himself looked for reeds that were a shade buzzy sounding and a tad bright to him to his ear. Iggie Gennusa often turned on alarm clocks in his studio that would buzz so this would help him hear how he would sound and project in an orchestra. I still do this with the clocks when practicing sometimes.
I did NOT try the SEV horns. They weren't offered to me. Are they still being made? I very much like what I've heard on YouTube with gifted players using the SEV's. I'm probably wrong, but I thought they were discontinued. On youtube they sound fantastic.
Added to this issue of hearing darkness when we play is the newer flutes and oboes are made brighter so as clarinetists we CONNOT get drowned out or we will be looking for a new job.
I will finish with this, not all of the Yamaha's played great, but in general they all played well and I had a hard time, 3 to 4 hours of playing, finding the right horn for me and barrel combo. But the cool thing is EVERYTHING was at one place to find that perfect fit!
I completely understand how we all like different setups. Some will pay $29,000 for a set of Backuns and buy really dark Zinner mouthpieces. I'm Not saying you are wrong or right. Just test carefully. The Great Larry Guy said that Marcellus's sound vibrated all over Severance Hall. We know he had one of the finest sounds ever. However I'm putting myself out here by saying that Gennusa did. I heard both players. However it doesn't matter. I feel Gennusa had the edge, but who cares, they were both unbelievable.
Here is my point. I actually think and know that players today are technically better than Wright, Gennusa, and Marcellus. Double tonguing, triple tonguing, but no one in my humble experiences has their sound. It's lost. I feel it is the fault on the horns and the mouthpieces being made the wrong way. We need to bring this back. The Yamaha's can do it. They are that good and easier to play. Mouthpiece makers with major companies need to have players with GREAT sounds to make great blanks and instruments. Then we will soon see incredible musicians with super sounds. Better than the past? Am I wrong to say this. Well at the ClarinetFest I left the FEST angry, because I heard so many nice sounds, but IMO none of them were correct.
Compliments go out to John Bruce Yeh with the Chicago Sym who helped get me set up. Thanks John!
I don't want everyone to ditch their setups of course. But I do wish for everyone to look at the past and make the future better with great sounds.
Thanks for having an open mind and remember, what your ears hear up close isn't what everyone else hears. It's tricky. I did see about 2 or 3 months ago Ricardo, with the Philly Orchestra playing on a crystal mouthpiece. So even he is sometimes looking for something.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2016-11-19 11:15)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Wes
Date: 2016-10-28 22:33
Thanks for the report. Is the Yamaha place open to the public? I recall trying Buffet clarinets a decade ago here in Los Angeles and they had a testing room with controllable acoustics. High F#s are often flat on Buffets, but are they also flat on the Yamahas? Is after sale adjustment needed on the Yamahas?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: seabreeze
Date: 2016-10-28 22:50
As Gwie said, finding Yamahas to try can be quite a chore. Bob, I don't know if Yamaha is still making the SE(V) model that I just bought used from Saxquest (skillfully set up by Audrey Denny), but distributors like Woodwind and Brasswind are still advertising new ones for sale and have them in stock.
The top of the line SEV ARTIST Yamaha model that has been showing up in some great Youtube performances is all but imposible to find. It should eventually be in the stores, but who can say where or when?
Of the CSG, the CSVR, and the SEV, I hear the SEV (and the SEV Artist) as closest in sound to the best Buffets--very concentrated, resonant, and luminous but much more even throughout. What players seems to disagree about regarding this model is whether it sounds more like a Buffet RC or a Buffet R13. I think maybe it is a third sound that combines some of the qualities of both. Even played outdoors on an open field. my SEV has a lot of ping and a very "efficient" sound. (You get plenty out for the air you put in).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-10-28 23:02
Yes the key word is PING. I'm now stubbornly going back to DARK and DEAD. Horns that are dark and dead don't have that PING.
Thank you seabreeze. Great post. You get it! You just said what I was trying to say in just a few words!
Mouthpieces need to ping as well as the horns. I think that's why Ricardo was using the crystal MP, looking for that special ping.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: seabreeze
Date: 2016-10-28 23:06
Bob, to paraphrase Duke Ellington, "It Don't Mean a Thing if it Ain't Get that Ping."
It ain't gonna swing if it don't have that ping, either.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-10-29 22:12
Seabreeze - That's GREAT! Never heard that! You're the man, Next time I wrote something that will be way too long I'll hit you up first!
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: TomS
Date: 2016-10-30 19:19
I am sure the SEV is discontinued. I have been happily playing a YCL-650 lately, as much as my Ridenour Lyrique Libertas. Been tossing around the idea of an upgrade to the 650's big brother, the SEV. There are a few left, but none being made or coming into the USA. Apparently replaced by the SEVR. So we have the CSVR and the SEVR ... upgrades to dated models.
I have played (several times) the only CSVR in stock at a local music store ... very nice, but dissimilar to the 650. For only about 2 grand, the 650 is a good deal ... better IMHO than similarly priced competitors.
Tom
Post Edited (2016-11-05 05:42)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2016-10-31 16:11
I like the Yamaha clarinets. I did work on a CSVR this month that needed a bit of work. The wood was very grainy and I had to seal the wood around the tone holes to improve the seal. But Buffets also need similar work.
Steve Ocone
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: TomS
Date: 2016-11-01 06:11
I wonder if Cocobolo has similar problems with quality and grain. I've never gotten an answer on the quality and scarcity of this alternate wood. I've heard that it is trickier to machine ...
Tom
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-11-01 19:06
Folks please! I don't want to get dragged into why I chose these horns. Yes other clarinet brands are good. We all know that. And I should have bought some other brand....
However, I'm still my own man. I make my own choices. I tried a lot of horns. I actually bought a set of Yamaha's from the Washington Music Center in Maryland, but they were too bright and I returned them. I've tried the Backun horns, the Bliss, varies Selmer's and Buffet's, even the Devine's, and some German Reformed horns. Nothing really spoke to me. I even tried the Yamaha German horns. Tried plastic horns, greenline horns, everything. Then Yamaha invited me to come down and test some, because I couldn't find a store that had any sort of selection. This happen in August at the ClarinetFest. This is when I found out that Yamaha really knew what they were doing.
Yes I'm VERY picky. For whatever reasons these horns work. They tune well. At the recent rehearsal the conductor who is a clarinetist and when I played different solo's he always chose the Yamaha's over the R13's from the 1960's and the 2013's. The sound was very nice and it filled the hall. The A clarinet is a horn I'd pay $6000 or more for. It's that good and it feels just like a Bb. Most of the time A clarinets are a tad bit more resistant. Not this A.
These horns are hard to find at stores folks. It might be worth a plane trip to one of the plants and pick out a horn, because it will still be far less than buying a Buffet from anywhere in the country and you still come home with money in your pocket, a vacation to Disneyland and great food here in California, a 5 star hotel, or go one of their other plants!
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2016-11-01 19:41)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: rtaylor
Date: 2016-11-01 21:17
Does anyone here know where in New York City(Manhattan) area where I could try these Yamaha CSVR out?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2016-11-02 03:22
In recent correspondence with John Bruce Yeh, his Bb and A are the Yamaha CSVR. That's good company, right there!
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-11-04 12:42
Ken, yes John is playing on them and he was pretty much the person that got me in touch with the right contacts with Yamaha. John is such a cool guy! I don't know John very well, but a funny story. He wrote a note/email to Yamaha on my behalf.
I also know his causin, also named John. He works for a headset company that makes perhaps the finest headsets in the world called Grado. Small world. I met John Yeh through his causin at Grado! Not the other way around! Crazy isn't it!
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: seabreeze
Date: 2016-11-04 17:26
Bob, you like your Yamahas, Yeh likes his, I like mine (a different model). All I can say is "Go, Yamaha!"
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: TomS
Date: 2016-11-05 05:38
Joseph Grado (deceased, I believe) was a materials scientist ... designed and made phonograph cartridges and headphones. Great stuff! Grado's headphones are unmatched in quality and accuracy in respect to their price.
Back in the 1970's, when the audiophile community experimented with CD4 (four channel surround) phonograph records, Grado made one of the few cartridges that could track the ultrasonic carrier that was modulated with the rear channel information.
I am showing my age ...
Tom
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-11-05 08:40
Seabreese, the more I play the the better I like them, I made a facing change on my mouthpiece, a minor shorter facing and a 4 strength Exclusive reed, from a 3 1/2. In the orchestra hall the sound seems to ring more, to the point that the conductor made a nice comment. The A clarinet barrel isn't right. It's not bad, but I have to go back down to Yamaha when the barrel guy is in town and have one made up special. I must say I am being very picky here. As the A setup sits it still plays more evenly and sounds darker than the R13's, my guess is because of the leather pads and the bore design. Even the thumb rest is placed perfectly, so there is no added tension put on your right hand, which brings up an added addition the Bb horns come with a neck strap, which will work on the A clarinet of course. When playing it has a hint of brightness to the sound - your ears. DO NOT LET THIS FOOL YOU as a bright sounding horn. It's far from it.
For those that are interested in the facing I'm using here it is - the tip is 1.05
Using the glass gauges it's 6, 12, 23+, 35+.
It was tip 1.04 6, 12, 24, 36.
Tom, I sooo agree with you. The headsets are so much better than anything on the market, but I cannot figure out why they aren't carried in places like Best Buy. It's like some sort of secret cult! Once you find out about them no other headset is the same. Listening to music, you often hear things on recordings you've never heard before. Thank you for the info on the Grado's. I didn't know anything about them other than the quality of the sound.
I don't expect everyone nor anyone to run out and buy the Yamaha's, frankly I wouldn't unless you can test them in the correct setting and compare them the way I did. At your standard music store, make sure you can return them, because the stock will be limited to 1 or 2 horns. Maybe at the upcoming ClarinetFest in Orlando. FL in early August, if you go, arrange to have them bring 2 or 3 sets for you to try out. They may give you a ClarinetFest discount of a fair amount of money. not $100 maybe more like $500 to $800 for a set or more. I was offered to try several, I settled for the third Bb and the second A I tested. I would have been happy with the very first ones. I was just being really picky. Enjoying knowing that every horn played so well right out of the box. Pretty sweet! I can't stop thinking about that perfect sound room!
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2016-11-05 08:58)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: TomS
Date: 2016-11-05 16:50
I annoyed (well, not really) the music store again yesterday and played their single CSVR. One (or a pair) is in my future. My next click of disposable income is in February ... I hope to journey to someplace that has a few to select from ... although I know the consistency of Yamaha instruments are "better than the average bear".
Would like to see a hard rubber option for the CSVR. And, the R13 and Festival as well ...
I've had good feelings about Yamaha for decades ... I worked for a fancy HiFi/Stereo store for almost 8 years as an electronic technician. We'd get a case of manuals in for new amps/tuners/receivers and a free training trip (usually in Dallas or Oklahoma City), and usually before the merchandise shipped to us to sell. Things were all "component level" in those days, and Yamaha would train and test us for days on how to service their gear. We didn't get support like that from any other manufacturer.
Yamaha rocks! No question.
Tom
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-11-05 19:35
Tom, did you ever get to play around with NHT's? I have 4, VT-3's running. I found out about these bad boys at a recording studio in Burbank. In the home studio I have the 2.9 series. These models aren't being made anymore but wow are they nice! Makes music so much fun.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2016-11-05 19:37)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: TomS
Date: 2016-11-05 21:38
Bob, I think the reasons really high quality, uncolored and accurate headphones won't show up in Best Buy are that (1) Grado probably can't produce the quantity that Best Buy requires and (2) IMHO, most "stereo stuff" nowadays is voiced for hip-hop, rap, modern country and western and other sorts of musical mediocrity that clogs our airwaves and plays annoyingly over background music systems. There are exceptions in each category, but for the most part ... well, overall could be better.
The average new generation of listeners tragically have never experienced, except accidentally, casually or obligatorily, real professionally performed acoustical (non amplified and acoustically manipulated) events. I doubt 1 in 10 people have heard and/or enjoyed a live string quartet or symphony orchestra.
And, the typical fidelity of pop culture consumer audio gear has bypassed accuracy, and substituted punchy visceral impact, sizzling highs and penetrating mids . That is, high fidelity "effects".
How many of our younger generation have heard a pair of Bozak Concert Grands or Klipschorns at full throttle? Very few, I'll bet. It is a shame.
My usual two penny rant ...
Sorry if I have offended some about their music ... as stated, there are some really good and creative examples that are exceptions to the mediocrity.
Tom
Post Edited (2016-11-06 04:26)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: TomS
Date: 2016-11-05 21:45
Bob ... I am slightly familiar with the NHT (Now Hear This) loudspeakers. There were no dealers in Arkansas, I've no opportunity to hear some. I understand they are quite good. I only remember that the enclosures had no parallel panels, therefore discouraging standing waves inside the loudspeaker enclosure.
If I were a zillionaire, I'd open a store selling Ridenour and Yamaha clarinets and "real" stereo gear. I'd make you my VP.
I guess we are a bit off the subject ... !! Wow!
Tom
Post Edited (2016-11-05 21:53)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2016-11-18 21:08
I've been trying a CSVR up at the store, and I just got one in to try for a while from Yamaha. Wow what a nice clarinet this is. I've played every clarinet that's currently in production and I have to say, the scale and intonation on this instrument is amazing. The sound has the
"ping" but a ping with a rounded corner on it.
If I say this is the easiest clarinet I've played, I wouldn't want to communicate the idea that there is no resistance to it. It's that the resistance is extremely even. I've spent the morning doing my normal warm up, scales ect. I could have played it for another 2 hours. Years ago I was a big fan of the SEV, I think this plays and sound even better. I'll be posting some audio files a little later with this horn. Yamaha nailed this one.
Tom Puwalski, former Principal clarinetist and soloist with the U.S. Army Field Band and author of the Clarinetist's Guide to Klezmer, and Klezmer Boot Camp and D'Addario performing artist.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: TomS
Date: 2016-11-19 05:35
I understand Yamaha started work on the CSVR in about 2001, and then "put their foot on the gas" for about 4 years before it was released. I've played one (impressive!) ... waiting for my next drip of disposable income, as I don't make my living playing clarinet ...
Tom
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-11-19 08:46
Tom P - Yeah we both studied with Iggie Gennusa so that sound is in our ears. I like what you said about the pinging. Don't know if you still have one of my mouthpieces from several years ago, but throw it on if you do. As a double lip player like me and John Bruce Yeh you will hear things that Iggie did. We may not sound just like him, but Yamaha is getting there. By the way, good to see you again. Iggie thought highly of your playing.
TomS I think you are correct. Please read on -
From talking with Yamaha they are working on new concepts all of the time. Sometimes the USA players are the last ones to see their FINAL products. Kind of sad. some US players should be right at the top floor of their Research and Development Department. Stop the separations and bring in the best of the best.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2016-11-19 08:51)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2016-11-19 20:56
It's hard for me to accept the fact that I'm getting to be an old guy, with old guy ways and old guy sound in my head. But, I have noticed that there is a new aesthetic when it comes to clarinet sound.
When I was a kid taking lessons with iggy Genusa I heard an absolutely wonderful sound. When I heard recordings of Wright, Marcellus, Bonade and McClane I heard a very similar sound. It was full, it had highs and had a very pronounced fundamental and upper partials that accounted for maybe 40% of the sound.
It seems to my ear that a lot of clarinetists are trying to get rid of any of the "highs" in their sounds. I think this is leading to a sound that is rather dull. I know everybody is on a "dark" kick. I also think this is leading to a very " non musical" way of performing on clarinet. The tonal model of what a clarinet is supposed to sound like has become the sound of a Korg tuner that generates pitches.
I'm a firm believer in using vibrato on clarinet, but to my ear you can really only use it "color" the sound. I haven't found that vibrato works like it does on oboe where you can actually move from one note to another with vibrato as a driving force, same with saxophones and flutes. On those instruments you can use vibrato as a major musical device.
On clarinet one device that works great for moving from one note to another is "tone intencity' changes. Being able to add and subtract overtones in the sound. If there is one thing that all the players that I grew up listening to growing up is the abilly to change the color of their sounds sometimes on the same note. To do that you have to be able to make a very full ringy sound. It's an intense sound maybe a sound that only occurs on 5-10% of the notes you make. That's probably the same percentage that I use that "sotto voce" timbre. The rest is moving between the two.
That's was the thing I noticed about the CSVR when I picked it up yesterday was the sound was "Full Spectrum" I could get lots of different sounds out of it, and the middle of the spectrum was in a comfortable place. Bob B maybe you're right double lippers are always looking for something different. I've been trying to verbalize just what that is, but I thnk in my own case it's "unconstricted"sound that has maximum vibrations in it. It's a sound that's Bright and Dark at the same time. It's like one of the supreme court judges once said about pornagraphy. "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it"
Tom Puwalski, former Principal clarinetist and soloist with the U.S. Army Field Band and author of the Clarinetist's Guide to Klezmer, and Klezmer Boot Camp and D'Addario performing artist.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-11-22 06:46
Just heard that the heard player of the Toronto Sym plays the CSVR. I wonder how many others are? Wish there was a way to find out.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jeroen
Date: 2016-11-22 13:24
Tom Puwalski wrote:
> Years ago I was a big fan of the SEV, I think this plays and sound even
> better.
I liked the SEV also because of the "full range" of overtones: dark and bright together. Unfortunately the pair were stolen from my car.
As you are so enthousiast I will definitely try the CSVR.
But I am also curious about the SEVR. Did anyone compare the SEVR with the CSVR?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: seabreeze
Date: 2016-11-22 17:35
As of today, I don't know of even one retail outlet in the US for the new SEVR. I've only heard it on videos, and I like very much what I've heard. Hope it becomes available on the US market soon. Is it in stores for sale where you live?
All three of these clarinets are very fine. I now play a used SEV I recently bought and may eventually get either a new CSVR or SEVR. I like Tom's description of the CSVR sound as "'ping with a rounded corner," sort of bright and dark at the same time. Yamaha seems to be very much on track with these instruments. They don't sound like "imitations" of anything. They are strong pro-level clarinets with their own musical voice.
Post Edited (2016-11-22 20:32)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-11-25 04:45
They are sooo underrated and they Yamaha doesn't seem to be pushing them fr some reason. These are expensive horns at great prices.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: gwie
Date: 2016-11-25 08:19
IMHO, Yamaha's lack of presence here in the US has always been a marketing and availability issue.
I'd love to have a couple dozen CSVR's available locally at shops so I can demonstrate to students why they are better choice overall in terms of workmanship, intonation, and price than the standard R-13, but they only have mine to play and their reaction is always "well, you get yours customized professionally so it's not the same." Kids, they're stock from the Buena Park Atelier, I haven't done anything to them! :P
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2016-11-25 08:48
There is a CSVR at the Ellicott City Music and Arts, that plays very much the same as the one I got from Yamaha. It's a great sounding, in tune, well built clarinet. What more do people need from a clarinet? I'm looking for a clarinet that will sound like me, with less effort. The CSVR at music and arts is $800 less than a Silver plated R-13 $350 less then the nickel.
I unboxed a CSVR clarinet played it for about a half an hour and enjoyed it so much I decided to record a choro on it. I think it sounds great and it's fun to play.
https://soundcloud.com/klezmertom/a-vida-e-um-buraco-by-pixinquiha
Tom Puwalski, former Principal clarinetist and soloist with the U.S. Army Field Band and author of the Clarinetist's Guide to Klezmer, and Klezmer Boot Camp and D'Addario performing artist.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2016-12-03 06:22
Ok I've been playing it for over a week now, and I have to say I like it better then my Buffets. And I have some damn fine Buffets. It has the thing in the sound that I like, and I can only describe it as "Bright and dark" at the same time. It also has the best scale of any clarinet I've played in the last 5 years, better that clarinets costing 4 times what this one costs. I'll be playing the CSVR from now on.
Tom Puwalski, former Principal clarinetist and soloist with the U.S. Army Field Band and author of the Clarinetist's Guide to Klezmer, and Klezmer Boot Camp and D'Addario performing artist.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-12-03 08:54
Tom they get even better and warmer. Not darker. Just sold 2 Buffets, 2 more to go. I'm loving the CSVRs more and more. The A clarinet plays as easy as the Bb. The hall rings when you play these. There are no dead note and no undercutting needed. They play great right out of the case. The CSG is also a wonderful horn.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: D Dow
Date: 2016-12-04 01:00
Congrats Bob!
Yamaha Clarinets are nothing to sneeze at so to speak!,,,get it
any ways, over the years what the people at Yamaha have done is spent alot of time figuring out how the best way not only to design a clarinet but also how to cut the grenadilla wood and choose it for cutting. I think the cutting of the wood is the main element why the Yamaha clarinet plays with such a nice deep warm ringing sound.
As for consistency the timbre is very even and my choice was for the straight bore CSG because it allowed for a more ringing set of overtones but still had the kind of focus that the current r13 clarinets could not duplicate. Also the CSG has a really nice round sound in the throat area that sold me. My set of CSG's is almost tens years old and still play superbly.
The other key ingredient to my happiness is the A yamaha clarinet is miles ahead of other brands in its warmth tuning and flexiblility..it sounds like an advertisement but is not.
There are loads of people using Yamaha clarinets..imagine from Paris to New York so they are doing something that is right!
David Dow
Post Edited (2016-12-04 01:05)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2016-12-04 17:57
My friend and mentor Dr. Cecil Gold has a set of CSGIIIs. They play and sound great. What I really love about CSVR is it's a great French sound. We've been playing duets on various Buffet clarinets Divine, Toscas and Tradition, and we both thought I sounded the best on the CSVR. I'll probably sell my Toscas and my Tradition.
Tom Puwalski, former Principal clarinetist and soloist with the U.S. Army Field Band and author of the Clarinetist's Guide to Klezmer, and Klezmer Boot Camp and D'Addario performing artist.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: TomS
Date: 2016-12-05 08:35
In a fair race, Yamaha might blow past Buckun, Buffet and Selmer like they are "tied to a stump".
You guys have me more closely examining my check book.
Tom
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-12-05 08:42
My 4 sets of Buffets are either sold or up for sale even the 1960's series which were amazing.
I'm glad people are listening! They are that good folks! I won't lead you the down the wrong paths.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ashle TK
Date: 2016-12-05 22:25
Yamaha had an event on Saturday in Agoura, Ca. They brought about 15 Csvr's that you could try. There were several Csg's too. Other than some minor variations in key feel, they all sounded fantastic. The rep was saying that the SEVR will probably be coming out at the next NAMM under the name SEV Select.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: seabreeze
Date: 2016-12-05 23:26
I hope the new SE shows up under whichever name they decide to call it. Should be worth a try.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: TomS
Date: 2016-12-07 07:18
I wish Yamaha would keep the model numbers the same ... makes me nervous that we might be getting something different than the Europeans.
A Quarter-Pounder With Cheese should be called the same thing, regardless of where it is sold on this planet ...
Tom
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jeroen
Date: 2016-12-07 12:58
Ashle TK wrote:
> The rep was saying that the SEVR will probably be coming out at the next
> NAMM under the name SEV Select.
Help, another SEV version! On the Yamaha site there are now SEV, SEVR, SEV Artist.... But I am curious.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ThunderingLight
Date: 2016-12-10 19:11
Yamaha clarinets to me are better in every aspect compared to Buffet horns. Their intonation is superb.
Yamaha CSGIIIH
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: TomS
Date: 2016-12-11 20:26
I would like Yamaha offerings of all pro clarinets in hard rubber of plastic for use is more hostile situations or less frequent use. I'd pay more for this option. No green-line material equivalents, please!
Tom
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2016-12-25 09:00
I really enjoyed reading this thread. After spending a lot of time at the Yamaha Booth at the Midwest Clinic and playing on the CSGII clarinets the last four years, I could not agree more with what I've read in regards to the CSVR's and the quality of Yamaha clarinets.
I'm still a Yamaha CSGII (CSGIII in Europe) fan hands down however playing the CSVR's its clearly the same quality of build and intonation. All the clarinets at the Yamaha Booth were the best in that massive exhibition hall. They were all in adjustment and just a joy to play.
I think it's amazing that Yamaha has also been able to reach people like Tom and Bob who really enshrine that desire for the former Buffet ping style while at the same time grabbing someone like me who completely identifies with the German/Austrian sound we've heard people like Sabine Meyer, Karl Leister, Wenzel Fuchs. Their R&D team is doing something right.
I wish they would go on to develop a CSVR/CSG Eb clarinet!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: gwie
Date: 2016-12-25 15:06
The YCL-881 Custom Eb clarinet is pretty awesome. I selected one from the Atelier for a student some years ago. Fantastic intonation, sound quality, AND a great price to boot.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-12-27 02:28
They do have plans for more horns. The evolution is not stopping. Not even close. Plan on seeing new horns some new horn come around every year or so. This includes the sax line. As for the clarinet line I was told by the sales team, leaving out names for now, that field testing is always done in Japan first. Then the rest of the world sees the new horns. The "Wording," every 6 months to a year we should see something new this year. So look for something at the NAMM Convention and again at the ClarinetFest in late July. Probably a new SEV? That horn was a huge hit. The Electronic sax is fantastic for recording.
If people are tired of their horns email me. I've had a few requests to hand pick horns at Yamaha. I have to make an appointment, I can't just pop in there. But rest assured you will get a great hand picked horn. If interested - savagesax@aol.com Then the horns will be sent to your local or favorite dealer. I make zero as for money, not a penny. As always, just trying to Make Clarinet Playing Fun, without busting the bank account. The prices depend on where you buy the horns. I'm just picking out the best horns, so shop carefully.
Bob
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2016-12-27 02:31)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2017-02-07 10:06
Wonderful playing Tom! Whats cool about these horns is how every note plays so well; so even, and in tune. They are simply great horns. The "A" clarinet is by far the best A I've ever played in my life! For double lip players you can attack these high notes without fear and then you don't want to stop playing. It's just fun!
Over the weekend I did some minor adjustments to a few of the keys to fit my hands better. There wasn't anything wrong with the horns, I just wanted a better feel. The adjustments were well worth the effort, so if you want that special feel go for it. Back in the day I always loved the feel of the Selmer 9 and 10 series key work compared to any other instrument. The Yamaha's come close to having that feel and you don't have to press hard, it's a lighter feel. This is difficult to explain. Maybe the word I'm looking for is freedom with a big sound.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: crelias11
Date: 2020-01-04 22:26
I just tried a Yamaha CSVR and it practically plays itself compared to my horrible 2013 R13 that is again in the shop today for the 5th time with manufacturing issues. I liked the Yamaha a lot except it played flat and the low notes even flatter. I am a bassoon player so I used to going sharp on low notes. The key action is great. My fingers were flying even though I was sight reading. I am waiting to see what my repair guy says about the R13 that he has had 3x this week and then maybe try a few more Yamahas. I can probably play 3 more an hour away. I think I could have used a stiffer reed on the Yamaha as well it was so easy to play. Any thoughts? I think the R13 is a dead horse at this point.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Garth Libre
Date: 2020-01-08 22:26
I have a gently (barely) used Yamaha CS Bb clarinet that I bought used for a song from a pawn shop. I sent it to Wesley Rice and he had to do quite a bit of work on it to eliminate lost motion and slop. I still consider it a bargain and a reliable instrument that plays more evenly but is not as warmly as my R-13 Buffet. It has a bit of a brightness to it that I guess is likable but somehow doesn't seem as refined. Considering that I must have paid $500 and I've only put $250 into it, I guess I did OK. I bet anything that the newer Yamahas are better made. I see they no longer make CS clarinets.
Garth, 305-981-4705. garthlibre@yahoo.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
