 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: KSCop
Date: 2016-10-15 20:44
Hello All;
New to the board but have been trolling for a bit. I am a raw beginner at age 55.
My grandson has started to play and was apprehensive so I made him a deal; I'd learn to play if he would.. I'm actually pretty happy about the decision but have run into an issue.
I have started taking lessons and the instructor has me hitting and holding F# on MP and Barrel only, and then practicing the first five notes on the assembled clarinet. So, finally to my issue..
I can hit and hold the F# with mp & barrel with little problem. Still have to work at it but I can do it. The issue comes in when I try on the instrument. It is squeaking badly, very airy and low volume and can hardly get any notes.
I'm guessing it has to do with my embouchure; something is changing but I'm not sure what. I have another lesson next week, but I'd like to see some improvement before that.
Any hints on such limited info?
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2016-10-15 21:27
If the teacher can't diagnose this, you should probably find a different teacher. Without hearing and seeing you, it's hard to prioritize possible causes, but they aren't limited to embouchure.
What happens if you add the barrel to the mouthpiece?
What happens if your teacher plays on the clarinet that you're squeaking on?
What happens if you rotate the mouthpiece on the clarinet (tone holes facing you) so that you can blow into the mouthpiece and the teacher can do the fingering?
What reed and strength are you using on what mouthpiece? How old is the clarinet and how sure are you of its condition?
Do you feel that your embouchure is different with and without the instrument attached?
Do you have the same problem whether you're at home practicing or with the teacher at a lesson?
Are you and your grandson using your own clarinets or are you sharing? If separate instruments, do you get the same result if you play on his instrument? If sharing, does he have the same problems?
Answers to all of these questions could maybe trim down the long list of possibilities. Absent this information, any suggestions are pure guesses and may cause more confusion than they help.
Karl
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Author: KSCop
Date: 2016-10-15 22:32
I'm sure my instructor could figure it out, I'd just like to get some ideas and make better progress before my next lesson.
I already am using the barrel and mp together; hence the F#. No issues there.
The instrument is fine; instructor plays well on it. I haven't tried rotating the mp; that actually makes sense and I'll give that a try.
Clarinet is a loaner from the music store while mine is getting new pads. It's an older Bundy but in good shape.
Using a 2.5 Rico on a Vandoren B45 Dot MP with a Rovner 1R ligature.
Tried a 2 reed also. Same issues.
Same problem at home or with the instructor.
I don't feel like my embouchure changes, but I'm not sure. Perhaps I'll check that in a mirror.
Grandson and I have different clarinets; same issues for me with both. I'm sure it's not the instrument; it's something I'm doing or not doing.
In terms of the MP & Barrel; I can hit the F# right off and hold it fairly steady for around 10 seconds before needing a breath.
In thinking about this; I may be holding the MP & Barrel at a different angle than when I play the assembled clarinet. That just might be at least part of the issue..
Post Edited (2016-10-15 23:33)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2016-10-15 23:35
KSCop wrote:
> I'm sure my instructor could figure it out, I'd just like to
> get some ideas and make better progress before my next lesson.
>
Could you schedule an "emergency" lesson with the teacher sooner than the next regular meeting? The problem with the kind of playing issue that you describe (assuming it isn't being caused by equipment) is that your natural reactions will tend to make everything in your body tighter and, maybe, aggravate the basic cause. The sooner you get that negative feedback loop stopped the better.
If that's not possible,
> The instrument is fine; instructor plays well on it. I haven't
> tried rotating the mp; that actually makes sense and I'll give
> that a try.
Rotating the mouthpiece includes the idea of having someone else (the teacher) do the fingering. It's not a diagnostic technique you can do alone. That said, it may be worth finding out if just the additional weight of the assembled instrument is causing you to change something in your embouchure, so try just holding the normally assembled clarinet by the barrel with both hands and not closing any tone holes and see what happens.
> Clarinet is a loaner from the music store while mine is getting
> new pads. It's an older Bundy but in good shape.
Well, *they've told you* it's in good shape, but you aren't in a position to know. But if the teacher plays it without a problem, it should be in good enough condition not to cause this.
>
> Using a 2.5 Rico on a Vandoren B45 Dot MP with a Rovner 1R
> ligature.
> Tried a 2 reed also. Same issues.
>
Well, it's a very open-tipped mouthpiece. I've never started a student on anything that open, so I have no experience with difficulties a beginner might have with it. But the B45dot *may* be part of the problem, although it shouldn't cause uncontrollable squeaking.
Of course, the reed needs to be straight, the ligature should be well centered over it and the reed tip should be fairly close to the tip of the mouthpiece - some players like it a hair's breadth higher, some like to see a hair's breadth of black above the reed tip, but no more either way.
> Same problem at home or with the instructor.
>
And he hasn't figured out an explanation and just let you go home with your squeaks? Just how persistent is the squeaking? Can you produce acceptable notes on the clarinet with any consistency?
> I don't feel like my embouchure changes, but I'm not sure.
> Perhaps I'll check that in a mirror.
>
Won't hurt, though the changes, if any, may be very subtle from the outside.
> Grandson and I have different clarinets; same issues for me
> with both. I'm sure it's not the instrument; it's something I'm
> doing or not doing.
>
A couple of things I've already mentioned to try:
(1) hold the fully assembled clarinet firmly by the barrel and blow, then if that's OK, hold the barrel with your right hand and finger the notes you're working on with your left. If it starts to squeak, note specifically on what note the squeaks start.
(2) while holding the clarinet by the barrel with your right hand, fold your upper lip under your top teeth to about the same amount as your lower lip and try playing your fingered notes (you may not like the feel - don't worry, it doesn't need to last long). If you get an improvement, carefully let your upper lip out but try to keep everything else the same and test the result.
(3) try putting the mouthpiece (or, more important. the reed) less far into your mouth and test (I would still hold the clarinet by the barrel with your right hand until you find a way to stop the squeaks).
(4) if all of that fails to help, put your fingers down one at a time playing a long note with each fingering - thumb, then index finger, etc. - and try to be as aware as possible of where the tone hole contacts each finger. If even a sliver of any of the tone holes that should be covered is open, squeaks may result. Try as much as you are able on your own to make sure each hole is **completely** covered. (This is easier for someone else to see than for you to feel, and a teacher can gently move each finger to check if it's covering or not.) [Edit] If any finger is allowing even a little air to escape, all the notes below the first one affected will also be affected.
One problem with older [edit] - i.e. adult - learners is that they sometimes try too hard to get everything "right" and end up tensing everything up so much that it becomes destructive. Try to be aware if this may be happening. Clarinet is really not a high-tension instrument. Muscles need to be in control, but nothing you do in playing needs to overpower anything.
Good luck with it. I hope you can get some in-person help quickly. Hearing and seeing you would be far better than having you try to describe this verbally.
Karl
Post Edited (2016-10-16 02:07)
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2016-10-16 06:09
Karl has given you some good suggestions, but here are a couple more.
First, as he suggested, make sure the reed is on just right. With many beginners, putting the reed on too high is a common problem. If the reed is on correctly, you've followed Karl's suggestions, and you're still having a problem, put the mouthpiece and barrel on just the upper (top) joint. Try playing these same notes. If everything works, add the lower (bottom) joint and the bell. Make sure the upper and lower joints are lined up perfectly. If the lower joint is even a little off, it can mess up everything.
You probably didn't do this, but it's worth mentioning. Find the A key and its neighboring G#/A-flat key on the upper joint. If you're not sure where they are, check a fingering chart. These keys are on the top of the upper joint, the two top keys closest to the barrel. You'll see a tiny screw on the top of the G#/A-flat key that shouldn't be tightened all the way. Every once and a while, I'll see a clarinet that doesn't work. Everything looks fine, but the student, trying to be helpful, has tightened all the screws including this one. When the screw on this key is too tight, the key doesn't quite close completely--and nothing works.
Open and close this key, and see if it closes completely. You could also take a screw driver (if you have the appropriate one), and see if someone has tightened it. It's unlikely, but possible. If it's too tight, loosen it very slightly.
Post Edited (2016-10-16 06:11)
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