 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Matt74
Date: 2016-10-15 18:45
I'm using Weldwood cement for corking.
1. Is there anything less toxic?
2. What do you use to thin it?
I don't want to fool around with Xylene or Tolulene, as I have experience with both. I wouldn't mind using Acetone, but I'm afraid it would melt the plastic when you put it on tenons. Does Mineral Spirits work?
I am aware Ferree's has cement and thinner in their catalog, because that's what we used at repair school.
- Matthew Simington
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-10-15 19:07
Is that a rubbery type adhesive where you coat both surfaces, allow to dry and then stick both surfaces together?
The sort of stuff you'd glue lino or formica to a table top or work surface or used to bond rubber soles to leather soled shoes.
Toluene was the solvent used in contact cement, but that has largely been banned in a lot of countries due to the toxicity. Acetone may be better, but test it first on a scrap resin joint to see if it harms the plastic.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: fskelley
Date: 2016-10-15 20:03
Coincidentally I'm looking for a new bottle of the Weldwood stuff for cork repairs because the bottle I bought 3 or 4 years ago dried up. Could I revive the old bottle with nail polish remover (acetone) or mineral spirits? Would it be worth the trouble? Any way to store a new bottle (or the old one if I manage to revive it) so it would last indefinitely?
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2016-10-15 21:40
There is water based contact cement. It dries a little slower. I use it for tenon corks when I'm not in a hurry. For key "corks" (I rarely use cork itself), I use super glue gel. The surfaces have to be very clean for a good bond. I often will use fine sandpaper or scotch brite on the area of the key that I'm gluing the cork to.
Steve Ocone
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2016-10-15 21:43
Steven Ocone wrote:
> There is water based contact cement. It dries a little slower.
Steve, is it water soluble once it dries? Is there any tendency for it to loosen if the cork is wet for long periods?
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-10-16 01:47
Hans Moennig used those shellac sticks you use to put on pads. Then he'd put the horn on a wood mill and trim the cork to the proper size. I've tried this a few times, without luck.
I've thought about trying a glue gun but never got around to it. Xylene and Tolulene are really toxic, cancer causing, so if I ever use it, I go outside. In California weather isn't an issue. I also like the bottles not the tubes, because you have more control over the amount you use which should be very little and if the glue gets too thick in the bottle I'll go buy a new bottle.
I wish I could offer more advice. I've thought about this problem for many years.
Super glue is a pretty good idea. I've seen professional golfers use a few drops on a minor cut on their hands/fingers. A Band-Aid can throw off the "Feel" of their golf grip, so you know this is safe! I have to try it.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2016-10-16 07:44)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2016-10-16 04:31
The water based contact cement I use doesn't seem to be affected by moisture after it is cured. It is a little fussier concerning the surface it is being bonded to. If the wood seems oily or greasy I will go with a solvent based cement.
Another technique (one I don't use), is to take some sheets of cork and put several layers of solvent based contact cement on (letting each layer dry before the next is applied). To put a cork on a key, heat the area of the key and press a piece of this prepared cork on. I suppose you could do the first step with the window open.
Steve Ocone
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2016-10-16 06:24
Steven Ocone wrote:
> Another technique (one I don't use), is to take some sheets of
> cork and put several layers of solvent based contact cement on
> (letting each layer dry before the next is applied). To put a
> cork on a key, heat the area of the key and press a piece of
> this prepared cork on.
You could do this with old fashioned shellac (stick or flaked) dissolved in some alcohol, which is the way I remember seeing corks and pads applied in Moennig's shop 50 years ago. He just brushed the dissolved shellac onto the surface or dripped it into the pad cup, then heated the key or pad cup to evaporate the alcohol. I imagine you could prepare sheet cork ahead of time by brushing the dissolved shellac over one surface, then heat the key the same way you describe to melt the hardened shellac.
The pad and cork cement that Micro used to market (maybe still does, though I haven't seen it for awhile) was, I always thought, essentially the same thing.
But in the end, I'm not really sure what's wrong with modern contact cement. I've never noticed enough smell of fumes from the amount you use on a cork to seem dangerous. I've never tried to thin it - if it eventually stiffens in the bottle so much that it won't spread from a brush, I chuck it and get buy a new bottle.
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Matt74
Date: 2016-10-16 06:31
Chris, That's exactly what it is. What do you use?
Steven, What is the brand of water based that you use?
Bob, I thought that shellac didn't hold as well, and I've seen it come off, but then I've also seen ancient horns with the stuff still holding in places. I should probably learn.
Thank you!
- Matthew Simington
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-10-16 08:03
Matt, I use shellac on the key "pads" only. I haven't noticed any problems. But I wasn't gifted enough to mount the cork on the joints the way Hans did using shellac. It never held for me, so I've always used contact cement on joints and keys. I first put the cement on the joint and then on the pre-cut cork to size. Then wait about 10 to 15 minutes for the contact cement to dry and place the cork on. Same process for the cork on the keys. (Not the pads, I use shellac to hold the pads) If there is some overlap of the cork I like using those women's nail file sticks and or the old fashioned shaving blades which are still available at a very low cost. 50 blades for maybe $5 online.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-10-16 09:43
I use Evo-Stik for tenon corks and key corks. I buy it in tubes instead of large bottles as they will keep much better long term.
For key felts (which are very porous) I use the thixotropic version as it's really thick and won't soak into the felt like regular contact adhesive.
I use shellac to install all cork, leather or skin pads as they need to have something that's easy to adjust, yet sets solid for stability.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-10-16 16:11
Chris, is Evo-stik toxic smelling? Where do you get it?
Thanks for the input. Bob
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-10-16 17:16
Evo-Stik used to be the gluesniffer's glue of choice due to the toluene fumes, but they changed the formula in the 2000s and removed the toluene so it smells like regular Bostik plastic adhesive. It dries faster than the older formula and some people aren't too keen on it.
You may have to buy it from the UK or Ireland - I buy it off eBay.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2016-10-16 19:32
The water based contact cement I use is from a supplier who only sells to professional repair shops. They repackage it and I don't know the manufacturer.
Steve Ocone
Post Edited (2016-10-17 02:47)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2016-10-27 20:08
https://www.amazon.com/25332-Weldwood-Nonflammable-Contact-1-Quart/dp/B0006MUPYS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1477583778&sr=8-1&keywords=weldwood+contact+cement+nonflammable
Here's a link for the nonflammable contact cement...my suppliers aren't listing any smaller sizes. The original (toxic) contact cement is used for applying Formica counter tops. The nonflammable was created since the original is so toxic....smell could give a head ache for hours. But most contractors found it hard to work with. I've never heard of thinning contact cement, but the label list paint thinner (mineral spirits) for clean-up. I suspect that'd be your best bet for thinning.
~Robt L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage
Lig: Ishimori, Behn Delrin
Reed: Legere French Cut 3.75/4, Behn Brio 4
Horns: Uebel Superior (Bb,A), Ridenour Lyrique, Buffet R13 (Eb)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: knotty
Date: 2016-10-28 00:14
I use MEK for restoring dried Weldwood. Seemed to work same as new.
knotty
~ Musical Progress: None ~
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2016-10-28 01:12
Sorry to hear that Weldwood is toxic. Guess I'm gonna die from having used it for thirty-some years. And will continue to do so. Best stuff for tenon cork installation.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
