 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: calicoco
Date: 2016-10-14 02:29
Hi, sorry if this has already been addressed and I might not have seen it in other posts.
But I was wondering if anyone has tried the Backun and Fobes barrels too? I have the backun fatboy which has really improved the response, and the tone somewhat; but not so much the intonation. I feel like some throat tones are sharper and I have to tighten my embouchure even more (than when I used the stock R13 barrel) to bring up pitch especially on the higher registers.
I'm not sure if this might be an issue with me? Or if I should consider a different kind of barrel?
Has anyone tried the Fobes? I read reviews that people liked it a lot and hat it helped with their tone and throat tones. However I do know that the result will be different for each person. But I was just curious on the difference between Fobes and Backun (I've never tried the Moba or the Fobes. I only tried the Fatboy because my teacher let me try and I thought it was good at the time).
Also is free-blowing a good thing? Or do you prefer resistance? (I think I like a little resistance)
Will a Vandoren M13 mp fit in a Fobes barrel? There was a review that said that their mouthpiece didn't go all the way in.
Thanks for reading this long post. (I also should have tried more barrels before buying)
Post Edited (2016-10-14 04:35)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2016-10-14 03:34
calicoco wrote:
> But I was wondering if anyone has tried the Backun and Fobes
> barrels too?
I own several of each.
> I have the backun fatboy
Here's your first problem. There is no such thing as "the Backun fatboy." There really is no such thing as "the" anything in clarinet equipment, but I found, when at one point I was avidly trying barrels, that each Backun barrel was different, even within one particular style. Yes, the fatboys played in general differently from the standard ringless ones, but each fatboy was also different from the others. There's also cocobolo or grenadilla to choose between.
> which has really improved
> the response, and the tone somewhat; but not so much the
> intonation. I feel like some throat tones are sharper and I
> have to tighten my embouchure even more (than when I used the
> stock R13 barrel) to bring up pitch especially on the higher
> registers.
Maybe the barrel is too long? The pitch is determined by the volume of air, not just the length, so if two barrels of equal length have different-sized bores, the one that's larger inside will be flatter. The throat tones are always affected more than the longer fingerings, so a mouthpiece that's longer or has a bigger bore will make the throat notes flatter than the low E or long B and C in the clarion register.
> Has anyone tried the Fobes? I read reviews that people liked it
> a lot and hat it helped with their tone and throat tones.
Probably there are reviews saying the same thing about Backuns.
> However I do know that the result will be different for each
> person. But I was just curious on the difference between Fobes
> and Backun (I've never tried the Moba or the Fobes. I only
> tried the Fatboy because my teacher let me try and I thought it
> was good at the time).
One difference is that I think, individual preferences aside, the Buckun barrels are designed to encourage a different style of tone from the design of the Fobes line. I don't want to characterize the difference, but it is - for me - quite clear, almost stark. So, to really appreciate the two styles and decide which appeals to you, you would have to try the Fobes mouthpieces yourself.
> Also is free-blowing a good thing? Or do you prefer resistance?
> (I think I like a little resistance)
I prefer some resistance. Many players prefer a more free-blowing feel.
> Will a Vandoren M13 mp fit in a Fobes barrel?
Yes.
> There was a
> review that said that their mouthpiece didn't go all the way in
> or something...
Well, what the "or something..." is would make a difference. If it doesn't go *in* all the way, there's not any real harm, except that the effective length ends up being a little longer than advertised. I suspect it's more likely that some barrels don't go all the way down to the bottom of the first section tenon on some clarinets. But I don't really see that as a problem, either - again, the set-up ends up being slightly longer that it's meant to be. If the slight extra length causes a pitch problem, either socket can be adjusted to fit more flush.
In any case, I've never had that problem with my Fobes barrels.
> (I also should have tried
> more barrels before buying)
It's the only way really to find out what you like best. Check the online vendors to find the best return policy. As long as you buy *something* you really aren't harming the vendor by trying and returning what you don't like. Some have bigger restocking fees than others (some may waive them if you keep something from the shipment). Some may allow returns for a longer time than others. You'll probably need to put anything you order on a credit card - the money will be refunded back to the card for what you don't keep.
Of course, if you can find a local vendor who stocks these things, all the better.
But, too, for the record - after all the barrels I've tried, I always come back to the original barrels that came with my Selmer 10G clarinets.
Karl
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Author: Ed
Date: 2016-10-14 05:24
The Fobes barrels are excellent. I have not compared them to Backuns, but they are well worth trying.
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2016-10-14 09:02
I find myself in total agreement with kdk's observations. When I purchased my Backun MoBa barrel, I trialed a group of six--three cocobolo, and three grenadilla. All six were very different from each other in terms of response and timbre.
Check the tuning of your instrument very carefully when auditioning a barrel. Neither my MoBa nor my Fatboy barrel play in tune with my preferred mouthpiece on any of my performance instruments. The tuning is especially off the mark when these barrels are played on my Backun Alpha clarinet--which demonstrates that you simply cannot assume anything about what instrument a given barrel might match up well with.
At the end of the day, my Ridenour, Backun, Boosey & Hawkes, and Noblet clarinets ultimately proved best overall with their original equipment barrel(s).
+ + + +
Not one to let a $240 barrel sit around unused, I tried it with every clarinet in my studio and found that the response, timbre, and tuning was absolutely superb with...drumroll, please...a Yamaha YCL-20. I wonder if Morrie knows...
Post Edited (2016-10-14 09:08)
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Author: TomS
Date: 2016-10-15 08:12
Wooden barrels, unless lined with hard rubber or maybe plastic (ABS) and very carefully drilled and reamed, will vary somewhat in tuning, resistance and sound, even among the same model. I just bought several ringless Backun barrels on a closeout deal, and they are all different ... not greatly, but noticeable. They are pretty, though ...
It seems that the original factory barrel should have been painstakingly optimized for each instrument. The unknown variables would be the MP acoustics that the barrel has to work with ...
Check out the Ridenour, Behn or Chedville hard rubber barrels ... these guys are on the right track, I think ...
Tom
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2016-10-15 20:04
Depending the clarinet (and bear with me, my information may be a little old, but I think it's still done this way), the barrel may have been reamed at the same time while connected to the upper joint. This would mean that the factory barrel and upper joint were reamed together, and so THAT combination should provide the smoothest transition trying to match the bore.
But hey, if it doesn't tune well, try another barrel.
Take a look at about 2:40. You'll see the tech grab an upper joint with the barrel attached, and then ream out the combo together.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DZgoYmbU-w
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: TomS
Date: 2016-10-16 04:07
I think that is correct on SOME models of clarinets ... the barrel is attached to the upper joint and the whole shebang is drilled/reamed/polished as one assembled piece. My old teacher had an old teacher (a million years ago) that insisted that the students assemble the clarinet with the labels all aligned because "that's the way it was bored at the factory" ... I gotta feeling that this is the exception rather than the rule, nowadays ...
Tom
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2016-11-08 20:19
I have been emailing Brad Behn about a Legere friendly mouthpiece for one of my students who has a cane allergy. I was curious and asked about his new line of barrels and bells. This is what he told me about his own product line. I found it intriguing.
"I appreciate your interest in my bells and barrels. I am personally playing Svelte barrels on both Bb and A clarinets. I am selling more of the Svelte barrels as well, however Classic is a good option for those looking for a tad more resistance and cover. Regarding Bells, I recommend the one with the small tuning vent-hole unless you play on older 60's era Buffet R13's."
~Robt L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage
Lig: Ishimori, Behn Delrin
Reed: Legere French Cut 3.75/4, Behn Brio 4
Horns: Uebel Superior (Bb,A), Ridenour Lyrique, Buffet R13 (Eb)
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Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2016-11-09 01:45
Since you mentioned "the stock R13 barrel" I will assume your clarnet is a Buffet R13. I confess that I am a clarinet geek, and an accessory hound. That said, I've purchased and used Backun and Fobes barrels (among others). I've found the Backuns slowly work their way into my storage drawer, initially making an impression, perhaps more a psychological impression, due to the money involved. But, eventually they become a barrel to perhaps sell. The Fobes barrels have all been excellent, but not on my Buffet. My Selmers love the Fobes! I have his hard-rubber lined barrels and standard grenadilla barrels for my Selmer 10 Series B-flats and his Hard-Rubber Lined barrel for A clarinet on my Selmer 10G. For Buffet, I have found nothing better than the Buffet-Branded Chadash barrels. They solve the throat tone sound issues, they solve the uneven 12th issues. So, for my Buffets, Bb, Eb and A - they all have Chadash.
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
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Author: DixieNSwing
Date: 2016-11-12 22:10
I have a number of Backuns (both fatboy and MoBa), and one Fobes. They all work fine for my needs. Although I prefer the fatboys for the stuff I do (which is jazz) as they feel the most freeblowing (I play them on my Buffet R-13, Selmer 10-G, and Leblanc Symphonie III), the MoBa works best with my Yamaha YCL-72CS. However, since I do a fair share of outdoor work, the Fobes is my go-to during the winter months because it is my shortest barrel (63mm), and it compliments my Ridenour Lyrique 576-BC nicely (during warmer months, I use a Ridenour Ivorlon barrel for outdoor work).
If I have to do more of a classical thing or sit in a section for a recording session, I usually default to a Chadash barrel on the R-13.
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Author: HANGARDUDE
Date: 2016-11-19 14:54
Another vote for Fobes!
I have tried a Backun Protege, a Fatboy, a Moba and a Fobes, all grenadilla and 66mm, and I noticed that the Fobes a significant improvement in intonation and timbre from my old Moennig barrel. Maybe more stable as well. The Moba sounds a bit too soft for me. The Backun Protege and Fatboy felt more free-blowing, but intonation-wise the Fobes was better to me. Plus it costs less than the Fatboy/Moba!
However, some suggested in older threads that Clark Fobes's products tend to compliment each other better i.e. a Fobes barrel going with a Fobes mouthpiece, but I currently use his mouthpieces and barrel exclusively so that's no problem.
With all that being said, you have to try each for yourself and choose which works for you, as the cheesy quote goes:"your mileage may vary."
Josh
Post Edited (2016-11-19 14:55)
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Author: TomS
Date: 2016-11-19 18:43
With barrels, it doesn't matter who makes them, what the material is, or what the bore specs are, you just gotta try them with your MP and reeds.
I have a bunch of barrels that I've only played for a few days or only on certain MPs or instruments. Just sitting around ... but occasionally when trying out a new instrument or MP, I may give them a chance again.
MP and barrels are an experimenting adventure. Use what works for you. Keep and open mind.
Tom
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Author: gwie
Date: 2016-12-08 12:00
Make sure you give Brad Behn's rod rubber barrels a try! I bought both of his designs to try on my CSVR's, and they offer some very compelling tonal options. The immediate response and focus of the "svelte" model is wonderful on the A clarinet.
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