 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Napat Techa.
Date: 2016-05-07 17:44
How to produce a bigger tone and more meat of the tone ???
Sorry for bad grammar
...Sorry for my bad English...
Thank you !!!!!
Intermediate clarinetist . Buffet Crampon RC . Nick Solist M Mouthpiece. V12 3.5. Ishimori gold plated ligature and Rovner Versa ligature.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-05-07 23:58
Ah........my favorite topic.
The breadth of your sound is directly related to using you air correctly.
Firstly, you need to realize that you need to CONTROL your expiration. This is done be engaging your abdominal muscles at all times. While you don't "push like crazy" all the time (soft material for an example), it will feel that way if you do things correctly.
When you breath in deeply, your abdomen will protrude. As you push the air out, your stomach REMAINS sticking out (if you're doing things correctly).
The other important aspect is to ensure that your air is focused at the tip of your mouthpiece. You do that by keeping your tongue in a natural, relaxed position, or more like you are making the vowel sound "EEEEEE." Using an "AHHHH" sort of position of the tongue actually BLOCKS the top of your throat and impedes the flow of air to a noticeable degree.
The final part of the focus of the air is to tongue using the tip of your tongue upon the very tip of the reed (your target would be a dot drawn upon the center of the reed right at the edge). So as you have the tongue just far enough away from the reed to allow it to vibrate in between articulations, the air is focused directly upon the very tip.
..................Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mojo
Date: 2016-05-08 22:02
Try taking in a little more mouthpiece.
MojoMP.com
Mojo Mouthpiece Work LLC
MojoMouthpieceWork@yahoo.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk
Date: 2016-05-08 23:36
Not hearing you play, it's impossible to know where you're starting. Bigger than what? More meat than what?
There are dozens of things that may help make your sound fuller, louder, more mellow, more brilliant. I'm sure all of them will eventually appear in the various replies you'll get. But the problem is that many will not help you, some will help only in combination with others, and some could actually make matters worse or affect other things than your tone badly. You can't realistically try all of them and may well end up simply getting confused with little or no benefit.
Better to ask this question of a skilled teacher who can hear you in person and can give you immediate feed-back on the result of any change.
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: TomS
Date: 2016-05-09 01:56
Sounds like the equipment you are using should encourage a BIG tone. Wow!
Your air supply system is most important ... try to imagine that you are blowing THROUGH the instrument instead of INTO the instrument, that is, a continuity of air from your lungs to the bell of the clarinet, Learn to take really full breaths ... your belly will expand as you do this and your shoulders should not rise ...
Also taking more or a maximum (before squawking) MP in ... and take a look at your playing posture and angle the horn is to the body.
An "open throat" is viewed by some players as a "closed throat" ... sometimes consciously trying to open the oral cavity up is really restricting free flow of air, especially at the back of the throat ... so be careful about this.
It might be that your sound is already HUGE, and you don't realize it ... what we hear and what the customer hears are entirely different, as I am sure you are aware ...
My usual 3 cents ...
Tom
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Liquorice
Date: 2016-05-09 02:48
According to Paul Aviles, I'm not "doing things correctly". But somehow I still seem to be able to make a living playing the clarinet. Which leads me to the conclusion that you might be better off taking kdk's advice...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-05-09 04:52
I don't argue with other successful professionals about how they get their job done, but if someone is not finding a path, I put forth what I know works in at least some circles.
This would be a lovely opportunity to share how your approach differs from mine.
..................Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Liquorice
Date: 2016-05-09 21:56
Paul, I don't have as much an issue about the way that you do things as I do with your presentation, in this and countless other threads, that yours is the only way to do things correctly.
My approach varies, depending on the context and what sound I am trying to make at the time. There is only a limited amount that I can describe the way I do things in writing on a forum. Which is why I feel that the original poster's question would be best answered by taking lessons with a good teacher.
For your curiosity, I do things fundamentally differently from your above post in 3 ways:
1. I hardly ever feel like I'm "pushing like crazy". There may be moments when I feel the need for high levels of "support", but generally I feel like I'm hardly blowing any air into the clarinet. I try to allow the sound to resonate, much the way a singer would. Opera singers don't produce big sounds by pushing as much air past their vocal chords as possible, but rather by creating resonance.
2. When I inhale, there is movement in my whole torso. Probably the biggest movement takes place around the middle area where the lowest ribs are.
3. I don't especially push my stomach out or try to keep it out while exhaling. In my opinion, concentrating so much on movement in the lower abdomen easily causes the front upper chest to collapse, which can have very negative effects on resonance. My abdominal muscles aren't especially flexed when I blow.
Note that this is only a description of how I generally blow. I'm not saying that this is the only way, just that it can work well in many contexts, even though in your above description it is not doing 3 things "correctly".
Check out this video of Jonas Kaufmann singing a famous Puccini aria:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw_uDzhNeTg
You'll notice that he uses varied levels of support at different times in the aria. From around halfway through the video you can see quite clearly how the breath moves in and out of his torso. His rib cage never collapses, he never forces his lower abdomen out, and his stomach moves in when he starts singing. He has no problems at all projecting his voice over a large orchestra.
Post Edited (2016-05-09 22:00)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk
Date: 2016-05-10 03:32
Liquorice wrote:
>
> You'll notice that he uses varied levels of support at
> different times in the aria. From around halfway through the
> video you can see quite clearly how the breath moves in and out
> of his torso. His rib cage never collapses, he never forces his
> lower abdomen out, and his stomach moves in when he starts
> singing. He has no problems at all projecting his voice over a
> large orchestra.
>
I was taught this same technique as a voice student when I was an undergrad at Temple University. My voice teacher even described it as "emptying a tube of toothpaste from the bottom up." I was struck at the time by the difference in approach between the voice teacher and Anthony Gigliotti, my primary clarinet teacher, who tended more in Paul's direction (at least as far as maintaining abdominal expansion was concerned). It was an early hint that not everyone does things the same way.
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: seabreeze
Date: 2016-05-10 03:43
Gigliotti's predecessor in the Philadelphia Orchestra, Ralph McLane, used the same expression in an article he did for the old Clarinet magazine; he also directed breath into the clarinet as if he were "emptying a tube of toothpaste from the bottom up." I believe he originally received this advice from his teacher, Gaston Hamelin.
Post Edited (2016-05-15 07:39)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: brycon
Date: 2016-05-10 04:10
Liquorice and Karl, brilliant posts!
I've got into spats with Paul over these sorts of mainstream American clarinet playing bromides in the past. It isn't even a matter of the material being bad (though it often is) but rather his couching it all in such a high degree of authority (i.e. "if you're doing it correctly", "you need to realize," or quoting some great clarinet authority of the past--Does any professional clarinetist give a crap what Keith Stein wrote in his book? Who the hell is Keith Stein anyways?).
Just wanted to add that my experience of blowing is very similar to what Liquorice describes above. If I remember correctly, when air is drawn in, the stomach expands slightly downward and outward in order to make room for the expansion of the lungs.
When I was young, I had a teacher that really stressed pushing my stomach out on the in-breath; of course, it's also easy to push out your stomach and breathe shallowly. Although the stomach does expand somewhat on a deep breath, its protrusion doesn't necessarily indicate that's whats happening.
That was the case with me--working really hard pushing out my stomach for a pretty mediocre breath--until an Alexander teacher who knew that I was also a runner tried to get me to breath as though I was in the middle of a nice run, in the groove with my pace and breathing. It was a simpler way of breathing, with the bodily movement taking place mostly in my chest/ribs area, and the sound I got was more resonant and took much less effort (not to mention, it allowed me to blow in a more flexible manner).
So OP, if you want a bigger sound, ignore what's on the bboard, and follow Karl's advice.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-05-10 04:23
Thanks very much for that post "Liquorice" and the amazing excerpt - I've looked like that after more gigs than I can count :-)
Yes, I admire great singers. There is nothing more musical. I would say though (seriously) that their bodies ARE the instrument. In our case we need only deliver the proper ingredients to the horn for all the rest of that stuff to happen in the clarinet world.
My guess with the original poster is that there is a dichotomy between what is perceived from others and what is getting produced from their horn. Instead of suggesting a new mouthpiece or reed (and don't we tend to do a lot of that around here too?) I approached the problem from the most meaningful (and usually most fruitful) aspect I can think of.
I agree there can be many different ways to approach playing but giving more attention to supplying air to the reed/mouthpiece (and in turn activating the awaiting column of air in the horn) can only be a good thing. Once the poster achieves a really resonant sound (as we hear from our tenor), the sound can then be moderated as needed WITH the underlying requirement of resonance applied at all times.
I've worked in the presence of clarinet teachers here who emphasize notey things; completely disregarding the quality of the sounds coming out of their student's horns. The prevailing notion is that the sound will come around in due course (I can only guess). I don't think you'd do that to any of your students, but over here, that is not an uncommon approach.
..................Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: NB
Date: 2016-05-12 20:54
Try Vandoren B40 Lyre and B45 (no Lyre!).
These are more open mouthpieces, than M30 which is quite chamber sounding.
B40L gives centered sound, while it's certainly bigger than on M30,
B45 delivers a truly big band sound but one needs to
be more careful about keeping it centered, it's easier to spoil it
than on B40L.
You may need to use softer reeds with these two mothpieces than those that you are using on M30.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2016-05-15 01:00
Paul Aviles wrote:
>> I don't argue with other successful professionals about how they get their job done, but if someone is not finding a path, I put forth what I know works in at least some circles. >>
You seem otherwise to be a nice guy, but...
...the difficulty is: you put forth what you 'know works in at least some circles' – but that's only according to YOU. And contrary to that, in my view – and in the view of other respectable contributors here – you're quite often wrong.
The opinions of someone like Liquorice, or myself, clearly have more credibility. That's because our own efforts are constantly under scrutiny by others.
Are yours?
I doubt it, even though you say above, 'OTHER successful professionals' – as though you are one.
Your seemingly unquenchable input was the major reason I gave up posting regularly here. I just couldn't face dealing on a day-to-day basis with correcting you, and others.
Sorry.
Tony
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-05-15 01:47
I find that there ARE very different ways of approaching the same problems on the clarinet successfully.
One I was just made aware of only 6 months ago by Bas DeJong concerning German mouthpieces and the reeds one uses to make them work. if I was not confronted head on with this completely contrary technical approach (from the French school perspective) I would have have thought the idea preposterous.
I throw that out there because there may be a little of that here. You have found (and all successful performers have as well) solutions early on in your study and there is no reason to then say, "hey, this works great let me try something completely different and see if I can get that to work just as well."
I have an example of other top performers in a major symphony that had only sort of of half tried a "switch" and completely abandoned it (and rightly so) because there was a steep learning curve. So I totally concede that is practical to continue having all the answers when ............for all practical purposes you do.
I only throw out various concepts in the spirit of this Board, to put forth ideas and let the reader decide what is valid for them.
...............Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
