 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-04-08 05:05
That's humidity I see around the upper and lower joints right ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif) --it's a climate controlled case.
It's not that Morrie's seeking to keep the design concealed .
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2016-04-08 07:51
Does it come with a pair of white gloves and a screwdriver?
Tony F.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2016-04-08 16:01
I am sure it is not affordable to the average bear ...
Tom
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-04-11 13:14
I'll take a handpicked R13 any day and save $5000 per horn, $10,000 for an A and a Bb. Take the wife on one heck of a trip to Europe with change to spare. Very few people in the audience or on a recording, if any, will be able to hear the difference between an R13 and a Backum. The players may feel a slight difference. Is it worth $10,000? Maybe if your yearly income is about $250,000 or more. I can't argue with that part. They are good horns, but not that great! A few friends have dumped them for the Buffet Devine horns. I haven't played these Buffet's yet.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2016-04-11 23:05
I have tried the MOBa. ..I would say these clarinets are too pricey for what they are and agree with Bob completely on this matter. On top I find the sound while very even and precise not so resonant and players are deluded by this beauty of eveness. If anything I would like Backun to make an instrument less dark and more vibrant
David Dow
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2016-04-12 08:31
I had a chance to try a Backun MoBa A clarinet (cocobolo, gold keys) against my R13 Prestige A clarinet after a rehearsal yesterday. It was a very interesting experience. They're completely different instruments with very different blowing resistances and sounds.
I would have to generally agree with Bob Bernardo and D Dow. While the scale was quite even on the Backun, it was completely lacking in the upper overtones present in my R13. I got comments from a couple of clarinetists in the room (one a professional) who said the Prestige had much more highs or "ping" in the sound.
I much prefer the "ping" and color of the Prestige, and to me, the sound of the MoBa would be much too muted except for maybe chamber music. But plenty of people have obviously found success with MoBas, so I guess it's just a matter of which instrument best fits your style of playing and the sound you're trying to get.
I will say that the MoBa barrel plus my Prestige gave a nice tone color partway between the usual "ping-iness" of the Prestige and the "darkness" of the MoBa. I could image using that combination under some circumstances. However, I still prefer my usual setup for the most part.
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2016-04-12 08:45
Every time I have tried Backun bells and barrels on an R13 they seemed to remove those overtones and also seem to mute the sound so I wonder if different barrels and bells on the Moba would bring those back. On other threads I have noted the special ping that Buffet R13's have.
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2016-04-12 08:56
Good point. Would have been interesting to try my Moennig barrel and Buffet bell on the Backun for comparison. I think the body of the instrument is probably the most responsible for the drastic difference in overtones, though.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-04-12 11:22
I think it depends on the Moennig barrel. When I was lucky enough to sit with Hans he'd get pretty angry at Buffet because the barrels he designed were never right and he'd have to take the time to put them on his lathe or use a reamer and fix each one to his correct measurements. So I'm not sure if a Moennig barrel is the answer, but it's surely a great comment. It was kinda fun hearing Hans swear in German though! I really wish I knew what his reverse taper measurements were.
If there are any players out there that bought a barrel directly from Hans I'd be interested in measuring it and making a reamer to keep his legacy going. I'd need to borrow one for a few weeks. If can't be store bought, but bought right from him in Philly. That way I will know it's correct. I'm close to knowing the taper. The top is about 0.590" and the bottom is about 0.0570", for a 65mm barrel. I'll throw in a box or 2 of Steuer reeds for your kind efforts.
For the record, I'd take a car over Morrie's clarinet. I have actually! I have a pretty cool hot rod! 0 - 60 in just a shade over 4 seconds. It's a lot more fun then playing long tones. he he he
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2016-04-12 12:12
I was told by one of the expert techs that the new Moennig barrels being produced today and sold by the likes of Woodwind Brasswind for $229.00 and other retailers are flawed in their manufacturing process so I just purchased an older Moennig barrel and will be anxious to measure it after i receive it.
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2016-04-12 13:30
The "ping" comes from the player and not always from the instrument
Peter Cigleris
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2016-04-12 17:19
@Bob Bernardo, you're probably right that the Moennig barrels of today are not the same as what Hans Moennig produced himself. I ordered a few on trial for my A clarinet and chose one that was particularly focused/resonant and in-tune, which I would assume means it's at least closer to the correct measurements. A few that I tried were not very good.
I do have an older Bb Moennig barrel that my teacher gave me, but I have no idea if it's an "original" one or not. It certainly plays nicely though.
@cigleris, of course the player is primarily responsible for the sound. What I meant is that when playing the Backun and the Prestige "neutrally" and not trying to force the sound one way or the other, the Prestige was much more conducive to producing very strong overtones, and the MoBa was not.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2016-04-12 21:00
I wrote this back in 2007:
Guy Chadash says that the Moennig and Chadash barrels supplied by Buffet have a reverse taper, smaller at the bottom than the top. The tapered bore improves tuning and focuses the tone. They have the same diameter at the bottom, but the Moennig is larger at the top and thus has a more severe taper.
Guy said that Moennig himself used the greater taper but also made the barrel's top socket deeper, which increased the volume of the bore. Buffet's Moennig barrels have a standard socket, with no gap. Thus, they don't play like (and are inferior to) Moennig's own barrels. Chadash barrels have a standard socket and are designed to play best that way. According to Guy, his barrels play like original Moennig barrels.
The final reaming of a barrel is as much an art as a science. I play on barrels made by Kalmen Opperman, who finished them while I was at his studio. He made tiny changes with hand reamers to make each barrel play best on my clarinet and my mouthpiece, and the improvement was remarkable. Kal also put a slight "wasp-waist" in his barrels, tapering the bore from the top to about 2/3 of the way down and then slightly expanding it toward the bottom. All of this was invisible to the eye and was on the order of a few thousandths of an inch.
Probably the best source of Moennig barrel measurements would be the lined barrels he made for Gigliotti, which were copied on the Selmer 10G.
Ken Shaw
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Author: ClaV
Date: 2016-04-13 03:03
Bob,
The top dimension of 0.590" must be for old large-bore clarinets.
Most of the modern barrels (for R13 and alike, as well as for 10G mentioned in the last post) start at lower than 0.577" at the top (the diameter close to the most of the mouthpiece opening) and taper to smaller sizes (quite different for different barrels).
Older cylindrical barrels are typically at 0.568"-0.569" at top and bottom.
Post Edited (2016-04-13 03:07)
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-04-13 21:19
Thank you Clay! I am pretty close, within just a human hair or less on the older horns. The in with the information for the wider bored horns is of course very valuable. Thanks again.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2016-04-16 00:49
Vast difference from a Buffet to the Backun - and most audience members who aren't tone deaf would be able to hear the brightness of the Buffet compared to the far more liquid sound of the Backun.
The player of course is the main influence, but the instrument makes a huge difference also.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: BbMajorBoy
Date: 2016-04-16 02:16
Mr Blumberg, are you speaking as a clarinettist or a backun advertising spokesperson?
Leonard Bernstein: "To achieve great things, two things are needed; a plan, and not quite enough time."
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Author: Ed
Date: 2016-04-16 04:12
Yes, a set would cost more than my car!
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2016-04-16 04:45
DavidBlumberg wrote:
> I speak as a Professional Clarinetist.
>
> Sponsor or not - it's how I feel.
When one is sponsored by a company there is no known way to disambiguate.
You play what you like, you like what you play.
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Author: sax panther
Date: 2016-04-18 16:21
a moba definitely costs more than my car!
If anyone has a Moba that they wish to exchange for a 2011 Vauxhall Corsa, send me an email!
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Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2016-04-18 16:27
C'mon folks, your jealousy is showing, somewhat! I hold no ill-will toward any who have "found" their voice! David Blumberg - you play that baby with all your might! I'm quite happy for you! There are probably those on this site that would wish you be stuck with a Bundy, but I'm not one of those! All I have to say is Blow, Baby, Blow!
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2016-04-18 17:18
I think that if David put his mouthpiece and barrel on a Bundy, it would be hard for an audience to tell the difference between that and his Full Monty MOBA setup. Maybe I would draw the line at a Bundy Goldentone mouthpiece and Vibrator reeds, but you sound like yourself no matter what you play.
Ken Shaw
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2016-04-18 17:38
Back in the prehistoric days, I made All State Band on a Bundy. Was the only non wooden clarinet playing clarinetist in the band. Had only played for 2 years, so that was almost on my horizon, but not yet.
I could make a Bundy sound good, but not the same. It all matters from the reed to the mouthpiece, to ligature and clarinet.
Always comes down to the player though, similar to racing in a Formula one car.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2016-04-18 18:22
I can't even imagine being able to afford any of this! And my car's a cheapie too. My Jeopardy winnings after taxes won't be able to net all of the things I dream about...
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Author: sax panther
Date: 2016-04-18 19:04
I do have a moba bell, so I'll try to build up an entire clarinet 1 piece at a time - long term goal.
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The Clarinet Pages
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