 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2016-03-21 01:49
For a couple weeks my Bb's throat A key has not been closing reliably. This causes very noticeable problems, and perhaps similar but less noticeable ones also. Until today the key seemed to fix itself after a short warmup, so all notes would speak ok after using the key a few times. However, I've noticed that the instrument has been acting less predictably in general: notes not sounding right or even occasionally squeaking; and that might come from slightly imperfect closure of the key as well.
I've been assuming the key's leaf spring has tired and telling myself to take the key off and bend out spring a bit to recharge the tension. But I've procrastinated and then forgotten, day after day.
Today the warm up period didn't fix the obvious problem of the key not sealing, so I removed the key and went to bend the spring. To my surprise the spring is all rusty, and stiff with rust. It didn't want to bend as I anticipated, and it felt like it might break rather than bend much.
I ended up bending it out a tiny amount, and that fixed the obvious problems. Thinking it over, I realized that my habit of frequently blowing spit out of the A and G# throat holes during practice probably repeatedly wet that leaf spring and led to the corrosion. I didn't see any corrosion on the nearby G# key's needle spring, which also hasn't indicated any problem . . . . maybe the blued steel of needle springs resists corrosion? - I don't know.
For now I'm going to cannibalize the corresponding spring from my plastic clarinet (assuming it's similar enough) and I'll see about finding a replacement. It is time for my spring tone hole cleaning, so I'll look closely at all the metal parts while doing that project.
I've never heard of this happening. Maybe it's too normal to be worth mention. Anyway, have others here seen this problem?
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2016-03-21 02:01
Happens all the time.
On most quality clarinets the leaf springs bear down on a little metal plate and this should be lubricated with a tiny drop of grease (e.g. car grease)
It's a good idea to lightly coat the surface of all springs with key oil to prevent rusting. Do this with say a tapered matchstick or similar.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-03-21 02:05
I see it a lot on Buffets where the throat A spring and also the metal insert in the spring slot has rusted causing the action to become very sluggish.
So remove the spring and the metal insert and paper them up to remove the rust. Make sure the tip of the throat A flat spring is smooth as is the metal plate so they will run against each other without catching.
Fitting a stainless steel spring and insert will also help or a phosphor bronze flat spring as they won't (or shouldn't) rust. Apply a drop of superglue to the spring slot when you refit the insert in there and make sure any excess superglue is removed from the top side of the insert.
When refitting the throat A key, apply a drop of heavy oil or grease to the tip of the flat spring to help it run smoothly.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-03-21 04:04
As with Chris and Norman I use grease about once or twice a year. Take the keys off and do your the grease thing. The best type is probably something from an auto store. A small tube will last pretty much forever. Something like what they use to lube and pack wheel bearings. $5 at the most.
It's actually not spit, but a buildup of condensation. Whipping your horn or horns, if your are a symphony player, between pieces or breaks, about every 20 minutes, doesn't have to be exact, 45 minute, will assure you that moisture won't get into the holes.
I had a solo one time during a rehearsal and some condensation got into the A key hole. The note had that weird sound as we have experienced. The conductor asked what was wrong. Without thinking I said I had water in my A hole. The orchestra laughed of course. I now always swab the clarinet every so often! True story!
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2016-03-21 10:14
It's not that rare that springs rust (sometimes even stainless springs, depends on conditions). It's also not that unusual that the throat A key has this problem.
The most reason is that the springs digs into the surface it's sliding on. Either the clarinet body itself or a metal plate. This can eventually form a sharp and or low area that the spring can get stuck in and not come back like it should. When this happens, 99% of the time the spring doesn't need to be replaced.
First check if the area of the spring that is sliding has any sharp edges. Either the spring itself or rust/dirt that has built up on it. I remove this with a steel brush (if it's not trhe spring itself) or a soft rubber cone (both a micromotor).
Then check the plate or area under the spring for any places the spring can get stuck in. It can be a little difficult to reach. I use a sharp edge rubber wheel (also in the micromotor) most of the time.
Then put some grease on the plate/body and the spring (or oil on the spring). You only need a very thin layer but as long as it's between the touching parts and covering the spring it will help a lot for sliding and to prevent rust.
You can do all of this more or less the same with DIY tools, it might not be as refined but maybe close and just take longer.
If you have a replacement or can bring to a repairer, you can try a little bit of force to break the spring, to see if it is really about to break.
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2016-03-21 16:54
Many thanks for the good replies. I'll give the spring and insert a close examination and make a now better educated decision.
Bob, based on your experience in rehearsal, I can appreciate not calling the moisture spit. One might inadvertently give people the wrong impression.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-03-21 17:45
Considering the location of the throat A tonehole being as opposite to the lower edge of the bore as is physically possible, water will still collect in that (and the throat G#) tonehole. Nearly every clarinet I see has water marks on the throat A and G# tonehole bedplace as a result of the pad being wet and also the rusty spring and metal plate in the slot.
Even simple/Albert systems, Oehler and German system clarinets with their speaker bush being place on the top side of the bore aren't immune to the throat Bb getting the gurgles. So water in the form of condensation in the bore will still find its way to where we think it shouldn't go.
I'm a bari sax player and really don't like the term 'spit valve' that is commonplace on the other side of the Atlantic - the more dignified term 'water key' is the more appropriate and correct term as the moisture that forms in the bore of wind instruments is the condensed humidity from the player's breath. But with some players being heavy drinkers, would there be ethanol condensing in the bore too? That will surely strip the oils from the wood.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2016-03-22 03:02
I'm going to start calling the "spit valve" the "ethanol key", especially on low brass.
- Matthew Simington
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2016-03-22 04:31
Hi SilverSorcerer. There doesn't seem to be any binding - the key moves as freely as ever. I'll see what I can do with the spring (and the insert) later this evening, assuming I can tear myself away from the Internet as planned. When I previously looked at it, it appeared irregular with all the corrosion, and only wanted to flex at all back near the mounting screw. But it might clean up.
I do oil my wood clarinets regularly, just not with the stuff you recommend. I'm slowly thinking about changing oils.
The water that accumulates in the bore and the holes probably is partly condensation, but if so then part of that is condensed spit. I can sometimes feel saliva from my mouth going past the reed into the instrument. I try to suck it back out at times. (This reads grosser than it seems at the time.) Am I alone in this? - if so, I see no easy way to undeprave. Spit, ah, occurs.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-03-22 04:47
Some people are wetter players than others in they salivate more so that does end up leaving mineral deposits in the mouthpiece, sockets and in the crooks of larger clarinets (and saxes), but the majority of the moisture that collects in the bore of wind instruments is condensed water vapour from the breath - the bore is acting like a condenser in a distillery (which is why I wonder how much alcohol is condensed).
Mineral deposits can be dissolved with vinegar (a bit smelly) or formic acid which is used as kettle descaler - soak the mouthpiece in a glass filled with it and in sockets on plastic clarinets, dab it on with a cotton bud (Q-tip) and wash in cold water to neutralise it once the fizzing stops.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-03-24 03:24
With this topic now well covered, I'd like to point out how the subject title might make an excellent stage name for some New Orleans clarinetist.
Does Bob Spring of ASU have a brother named Russell who plays?
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