 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Maruja
Date: 2016-03-04 20:14
Hallo
I have just had my clarinet serviced and it seemed to be playing well. However, today, I cannot get the throat b to sound - fine coming down after the C, but not going up. I am having an exam in a couple of weeks and am starting to panic. Are there any quick fixes or should I go immediately to a technician?
Many thanks in advance!
Maruja
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-03-04 20:20
....trying to rule out cause, does low "F" ![[F3]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/f3.gif) speak?
...take bottom clarinet joint's opening near floor, no bell, up against skin (maybe left arm). cover holes, blow and/suck in other end's opening...do you get resistance?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-03-04 20:33
If it's just been serviced, then take it back to whoever serviced it so they can put it right.
Does it work when both LH and RH pinkies are held down (RH pinky on the F/C key and LH pinky on the E/B key), but doesn't work with either just the LH or RH pinky E/B keys are held down on their own (without the help of the LH or RH F/C keys being held down)?
I wouldn't advise you to do anything yourself as that could make things worse if you're not sure what you're doing and could also invalidate the warranty your repairer gave you on their work (which should cover any minor regulation issues). So take it back to them as soon as you can.
But it's better you discovered this problem now rather than right before your exam, so you were good to have it serviced when you did instead of leaving it right until the very last minute as so many people do.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Maruja
Date: 2016-03-04 22:59
Yes that's why I got it serviced in good time. I have put a bit of paper under the crow's foot at the bottom of the lower joint and that does seem to help, but keeping it there is a bit of a problem....
White Plains Dave - yes, I get resistance...
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-03-04 23:22
Sounds like the F/C touchpiece has been bent down causing the E/B key to close first leaving the F/C pad open.
If you can feel a slight delay when operating the RH E/B and F#/C# keys (a gap between them and the crow's foot), then the RH F/C touchpiece needs to be bent upwards.
The F/C pad should close with more pressure than the E/B pad and not the other way round so you can get E/B with either LH or RH E/B touches only/
I usually sort this out by holding the F/C pad closed and gently bending up the RH F/C touchpiece until the pads close with the pressures mentioned above when tested with a feeler gauge.
But as I said, I wouldn't recommend you or any novice try this as the F/C touchpiece casting is often fairly soft, so it can bend far more than you want it to and bending it excessively can weaken it.
I've encountered recurring problems with this exact same F/C-E/B regulation on some pro level Buffets as the RH F/C touchpiece castings on some of them can be very soft and they usually bend at their thinnest point where they join to the key barrel.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: JonTheReeds
Date: 2016-03-05 03:12
I had the same thing recently. I got the clarinet serviced a few weeks before an exam and, although most of the work was great, there was a bit of play with the crows foot and also the 1+1 Bb didn't work, which was annoying as those issues weren't present before the service
However, a few slips of paper fixed in with copydex sorted the problems. Not ideal but does the job
Is it normal to have little things like this after a service? Or is this not acceptable for a reputable repairer?
--------------------------------------
The older I get, the better I was
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-03-05 03:59
This is why I set up the linked mechanisms on clarinets to close the individual pads involved with uneven pressure so slightly more pressure is applied to the uppermost pad. That will ensure the long Bb (xoo|xoo) works as well as the E/B when played with just the LH or RH touchpiece.
If the uppermost pad of two or more linked keys closes with far too light pressure, then there's the risk the note you want with that specific fingering may not speak cleanly or not at all. There's enough flexing in the mechanism to work with so both (or all) pads will close, provided they've been seated properly to begin with and there's no excessive slop in the mechanism.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2016-03-05 04:00)
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2016-03-05 18:28
"Throat" usually refers to the keys near the mouthpiece. If it is the B over the break - the answer has been given above.
Steve Ocone
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-03-05 18:52
Only Germanic clarinettists have throat B - then it's onto H over the break.
And 'S' (Es) sounding a Major 3rd above the H or a Perfect 4th above/Perfect 5th below throat B.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: SarahC
Date: 2016-03-06 11:36
I sent a clarinet that was working except for one note to be serviced, came back not working at all! sadly i think it might be more normal than it should be. But highly unacceptable!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-03-06 22:04
Bognor is about an 8-9 hour round journey from Northampton, so not really ideal for something that will take a matter of minutes to put right.
The only woodwind repairer I know of up Northampton way is Francine Warner in Market Harborough - not sure how near you are to her.
Or Eddie Seales in Clenchwarton (over King's Lynn way).
But do take it back to the last person that worked on it so they can do the necessary work on it while you wait and so you can play test it as well - any problems you find can be dealt with by them right there and then.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Dibbs
Date: 2016-03-07 20:55
Not acceptable straight after a service in my opinion. I have had both the crow's foot and 1+1 connection go out of regulation a few weeks after a service when the cork compresses a bit. Is that down to poor quality cork?
I've glued a little bit of paper on top when that's happened.
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2016-03-07 22:19
I recently got my clarinet back from a cross-country service visit. It was wonderful for a few days, then it developed a misadjustment in the crow's foot just like you describe. Which took me a couple days to realize had happened (I blamed it on reeds)- why would one even think to check such stuff after such recent repair work? ...and it was perfect just a day or 2 earlier.
At first I was a bit unhappy. But I got around the problem with a layer or 2 of tape (same idea as paper, a bit longer lasting). I think we can be forgiving here, because- unless we are prepared to build into service visits the cost of extended play (hours!) breakin of new corks and pads and such- we have to accept that new or newly adjusted stuff is going to compress and possibly require re-adjustment soon. This is not the fault of the tech(s), it's the nature of the beast.
So--- we all must check and recheck regularly. And we should be prepared to fix the most common issues on the spot, ourselves. Unless we've got a tech (and $$$ to keep the tech fed) readily and speedily and conveniently available any old time. Otherwise we will be suffering through the playing ills from those common issues, knowingly or not. I'm guessing only the tiniest fraction of clarinets in regular play are anywhere near "perfect".
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: Maruja
Date: 2016-03-07 22:47
What type of tape would you recommend, Stan? Duct tape?
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2016-03-07 22:56
I actually am picky about my tape- "heavy duty Scotch shipping tape" is practically permanent. I cut it down to a good size and place little pieces as needed on the underside of the key, using a curved pointy thing. If I can do it, anybody can do it.
Too much? easy to remove after a minute or a year. Not enough? add another layer. Experiment experiment. If you can't improve it, take it to the tech. But I bet you 5 to 1 you'll make it better most of the time, and much less likely to hurt anything than bending keys.
Only very seldom is 1 thickness of tape too coarse an adjustment. Many times I'm up to 5 or 10 layers (other places than crows foot).
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2016-03-07 22:59)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-03-08 04:31
I generally slightly over regulate things so that over time as the materials compress, the instrument should still be fully playable several months down the line. Which is why I offer a six month warranty on a general service and a year warranty on a full overhaul and advise anyone to bring their clarinets back to me for a free check-up before the warranty period expires (one free check-up on a general service and two on a full overhaul within the year period) to be sure everything is still in fine fettle.
But as I've said with some clarinets, the F/C touchpiece can be soft and is very prone to being bent if the case lid is putting a lot of pressure on the keywork when closed. Soft sided, back-pack and lightweight cases that have thin lids with a pocket on top (that's packed full of all manner of stuff) can cause the keywork to bend, so don't overload the lid pocket nor place anything on top of soft/lightweight cases that can crush the clarinet inside.
If you're using a hard case, then also check the lid is closing easily without having to be forced closed - if it is, then remove some of the foam in the lid cushion or replace it with thinner foam, but not too thin so the joints all shift around as too much movement will bend keys too, so it's finding a happy medium. Better still is to have the foam cut out to leave a recess where the F/C and Ab/Eb keys are, but the foam is still holding the joints gently in their compartments when the lid is closed.
And don't place anything on top of the clarinet that can bend things such as sheet music or overload the sheet music pocket on the inside of a hard double case The F/C key is the highest point while the clarinet is in its case, so is very vulnerable to being bent which will put the crow's foot regulation out of whack.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Maruja
Date: 2016-03-09 23:18
Many thanks (esp. Chris) for your inputs. Latest news - I took it back to the shop today and the technician (who only goes on Wednesday and brings back the next Wednesday) did the repair on the spot (I did a lot of copying of your mails, I hope he didn't think this was patronising!). The shop manager heard it play and said it is now fine.
But I have learned my lesson and after this exam, I am going to request a bit of input on minor repairs (of the tape variety as I am notoriously cack handed), so that I don't freak out when something goes wrong.
Re. band directors giving input on this - I don't see how they can as there are so many different instruments to comment on. (Is this another thread?) But I always amuse the other clarinetists when I use a rubber band to hold the reed when I forget my ligature (quite often), so I am way ahead of them on improvisation of the technical variety.
But I also realise that becoming a competent clarinetist (or most other sorts of musician) is also learning to feel comfortable with the clarinet itself - your own, especially, obviously, but others as well - you learn to live with each other as a partnership and to recognise each others foibles... do you agree?
Maruja
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-03-10 02:39
I think anyone playing any instrument should ideally have some basic knowledge of how they work so they can spot the problem and use whatever means to hand to get it to play in an emergency if it's something relatively simple (missing key cork, etc.) that will at least get them through a concert, but still seek the advice of a repairer for anything more serious.
Some emergency things you can keep in a container in your case are:
Cling film which is good in emergencies for split pads - wrap it over the pad and twist it on the top side of the pad cup to secure it.
Elastic bands will work as emergency springs, don't leave them on the keywork or any other plated parts for any longer than the time you need them as the acid in the rubber will damage silver plate. Probably better to use thin fabric covered hair bands as they're less likely to mark the silver.
Paperclips can be used in emergencies if a point screw has dropped out and you can bend and fix the paperclip securely to go some way of keeping the key in place and working reasonably well.
PTFE (or plumbers') tape serves as temporary tenon cork repair should a tenon cork peel or part of it break off - put the end or broken bit back on and wrap PTFE tape around the entire tenon cork to secure it in place.
Double-sided tape and small bits of different thickness sheet cork (0.5mm, 1mm, 1.6mm and 2mm thick) can be used where a key cork has dropped off - stick it on with double-sided tape. Felt doesn't adhere too well to tape, so best using sheet cork. They can be trimmed up with a craft knife or razor blade.
Sellotape can be added to give more thickness to the sheet cork or used on an existing piece if something's gone a bit out of regulation and you're not too happy about bending keys to regulate things.
Tape will leave sticky residue behind on key corks and keys which is either removed with alcohol (methylated spirit or isopropyl), white spirit or turpentine, or solvents (acetone, nail varnish remover, toluene, etc.) but solvents will damage plastic if they get in contact with it.
Cigarette papers can be used for both blotting and wicking up condensation from waterlogged pads and toneholes, but best to blow any condensation out and then blot the pad to dry it. They can also be used as feeler gauges to check if pads are seating and also the regulation of the crow's foot for the E/B-F/C (using just the one key to close both pads) and the long Bb regulation (xoo|xoo) but you have to develop a feel for using them. Using light finger pressure, hold the key down so the pad closes onto the cigarette paper (tear or cut it into a long narrow triangle and use the narrowest end between the pad and tonehole as the feeler gauge) but the pad isn't forced closed as that will give a bad reading. But with light finger pressure closing the pas, you should feel the pad gripping the paper as you gently pull on it. If the paper can be pulled out easily (or can be pushed back in), then the pad isn't closing onto the tonehole either entirely (which is a regulation problem) or partially (which is a pad seating problem).
A disposable cigarette lighter can be used to heat the backs of pad cups up enough to melt the glue or shellac in them that the pads are glued in with, so that will help when it comes to reseating a pad, removing or installing a new pad. But cigarette lighter flames will leave soot on the pad cups, so wipe the soot off with a cotton cloth.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Maruja
Date: 2016-03-11 17:27
Many thanks for such a generous sharing of information. I shall copy it and stick it on my wall! BTW, is there any mileage in trying to send you my clarinets for servicing, or would it be silly to trust Royal Mail?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-03-11 17:48
As long as it's all packed and boxed up well as well as sending it by registered/signed for post as well as being tracked, then you shouldn't have any problems with Parcelforce/Royal Mail.
I'd trust them over Yodel or any of these other courier companies and haven't encountered any problems with them so far. I'd strongly suggest you send anything out at any time on a Monday and Tuesday and up until 2pm at the latest on a Wednesday as any later in the week than that it'll sit in a cold depot warehouse all weekend.
I'd suggest you wrap the case up in bubble wrap and then put that in a cardboard box that's a good fit so nothing shifts around. Also secure the joints in the case by adding foam blocks on the ends (to hold them down into their slots) but not applying any pressure to the keywork so nothing can get bent or crushed while in transit.
The best kind of packing a case is to support the sides of the case so the rest is suspended within the box, so there's no danger of anything putting pressure on the lid which can be transferred to the keywork. You can do that with long strips of cardboard wrapped around the sides of the case until it fits snugly in the cardboard box (but still bubble wrap the case to keep it dry should the box get damp).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: JonTheReeds
Date: 2016-03-14 16:01
A useful link for basic cork repairs
http://www.dawkes.co.uk/diy-instrument-repairs.php
--------------------------------------
The older I get, the better I was
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