 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: kj2008
Date: 2016-02-27 18:19
I would appreciate for some opinions on the subject from who have tried/played on both of them in terms of sound quality difference (tone/intonation, etc.), if any.
And also what difference does it make between nickel plated keys and silver plated keys (which cost $500 more expensive) other than appearance?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-02-27 18:52
Nickel plate is more slippery under the fingers compared to silver plate, it can't be polished easily when it tarnishes unlike silver plate, but has no noticeable acoustic effect on the instrument (as does any other kind of keywork plating or no plating) - it's only a cosmetic and a personal preference thing.
Nickel is a very hard metal but is applied very thinly (up to around 5 microns) compared to silver which is a much softer metal and applied much thicker (to around 25+ microns) on the best instruments, but both nickel and silver plate can wear through due to acidic (low pH) perspiration. Also more people are prone to nickel allergies than silver allergies.
Greenline clarinets are much heavier in weight than their grenadilla/mpingo/African blackwood/blackwood/dalbergia melanoxylon counterparts, so you may find they have more depth of tone due to the density of the material when compared side-to-side (which may be subjective).
But as a material, Greenline is far more brittle as the reconstituted wood dust/resin mix doesn't have the same degree of tensile strength as natural wood due to it effectively being a composite, so very often the middle tenons can break off easily through rough handling, being knocked over or falling off a chair.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-02-27 21:02
One thing I have noticed over the year is that the nature of the Greenline material is that is does not change tolerances nearly to the degree wood does. So I find Greenline horns come to you pretty much the way they were tweaked for tuning in the factory and they tend to stay that way. For this reason I would only buy a Greenline utility horns (bass or "Eb" clarinet).
The sound is pretty close. I recall actually doing the old side by side test (a test that I find less appealing as the years go on...... things "work" or they don't) and the results were very very close. I think you could make the case that the Greenline horn was a little less resonant but it is not enough to make it a deal breaker.
Also though Greenline is a bit heavier, I don't find it enough of a difference to be an issue. Certainly not to the degree of the difference between your average clarinet and a Selmer Recital (really thick walled wooden clarinet).
I am getting closer to the ideal of a completely synthetic set-up: Greenline clarinet, Valentino Masters Pads, acrylic mouthpiece and Legere reeds. Now you'd think this combination would be completely impervious to moisture but there is still some expansion and contraction of the Greenline material due to the wood powder content, and the Legere reeds start to play better once moisture has accumulated underneath them............there is just no winning.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2016-02-27 22:19
I have several friends with Greenline Buffet Clarinets. They sound great! But I do get them angry when I call them Presswood/Plywood Clarinets.
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2016-02-27 22:41
Chris hit the nail on the head. Even down to weight differences which I never considered, but yes, they're there.
I don't know whether greenlines can be tweaked/tuned like wood clarinets. But if you find a good greenline, you'll be fine. And I've found over the years and through playtests, many examples of great r13's, both greenline and wood.
I have seen a tenon snap off a greenline clarinet twice. Same greenline. The warranty process will replace the joints that are broken, but that kinda stinks. Meaning, if your tenon snaps off the middle joint, you send it back, and you might end up with a completely different upper joint and the same lower joint (after the snapped tenon is extracted). And who knows if the new upper joint plays as well as your old upper joint?
But I've seen probably over a dozen greenline clarinets heavily used in my lifetime and only ONE of those has had a tenon snap. And it was due to a user being very rough while assembling/disassembling. One way to try to avoid it is to make sure your tenons don't bind and have it professionally shaved down if your making "wood to wood" contact. It should only be the cork that keeps the tenon and socket together.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2016-02-27 23:50
I use both regularly - the Greenline for outdoors or concerts in hot countries, due to the obvious.
My personal experience is that the tone and intonation of my particular Greenline vs my particular wood R13 is that the Greenline is vastly inferior in every way. Not to mention that timbrally (is that a word?!) it is extremely uneven. I find the sound much more buzzy.
I also had this Greenline serviced recently so in theory it is playing at its best, and I still would only use it because I have to use it outdoors.
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Author: andy63
Date: 2016-02-28 00:35
Hello
I have no opinion on the plating of clarinet keys.
When it comes to Greenline i own an RC greenline that i use often.
I find it less susceptible to temperature changes and condensation than my Tosca .
I wouldn't say it was impervious to temperature changes but I find it to be more stable in certain environments in comparison to the wooden Tosca.
It is a bit heavier than the Tosca but not by that much.
Hello
I am of the opinion that all instruments have intonation quirks and that the materiel they are made of is only one of the factors that effect this.The main factor being the person on the blowing end.
According to my colleagues there is no difference in the sound of the two instruments ,which annoyed me no end,due to the massive price difference.
I do find however that from time to time slapping a wooden barrel onthe RC helps me psychologicaly speaking.
As for the so called "brittleness" or tensile strength of The Greenline range.
I have had my Rc about five years now i have taken it out of its case and assembled it thousands of times.The middle tenons are fine.I have however broken the middle tenon on my Tosca .(I can recommend the use of cork grease to avoid this.)
I have quite a few colleagues that use Greenline instruments i haven't heard of any issues so far.
If however you intend to smack your instrument of a wall or drop it from a great hight i would stick to grandela or titanium ,otherwise greenline is in my opinion fine.
Kind Regards. Andy
Buffet Tosca ,Buffet Rc Greenline ,Yamaha YCl-881 Eb
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-02-28 00:37
If you're using a Greenline clarinet as a marching instrument with either a bell or middle socket lyre, you're more likely to have it snap when you're holding it by the top joint when instructed to stand at ease due to the extra weight of the lyre, backing card and all march cards you're playing from, unless your drill instructor/musical director is sensible/sympathetic and will allow you to hold it by the lower joint as no-one should ever hold any clarinet by the top joint or even do abrupt movements with it held by just the top joint with a lyre fitted as that's just asking for trouble.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2016-02-28 07:18
Chris P wrote:
> If you're using a Greenline clarinet as a marching instrument
> with either a bell or middle socket lyre, you're more likely to
> have it snap when you're holding it by the top joint when
> instructed to stand at ease due to the extra weight of the
> lyre, backing card and all march cards you're playing from,
> unless your drill instructor/musical director is
> sensible/sympathetic and will allow you to hold it by the lower
> joint as no-one should ever hold any clarinet by the top joint
> or even do abrupt movements with it held by just the top joint
> with a lyre fitted as that's just asking for trouble.
>
I wonder if that's what happened. The one that snapped is used in our band for marching. Although we DO always hold the clarinet by the bell, in each position. But it did snap with the lyre and music on it. Maybe the person holding it was holding it by the top joint just walking around.
US Army Japan Band
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