 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-02-17 22:39
Yes, I'd "walk a mile," to make a double entendre. My concern involves expressing C#5:
![[C#5]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/db5.gif)
It's not uncommon that I will be unable to express this, and only this note. I consider the problem multi-factorial.
First, I should probably curve my fingers more, particularly in the left hand. Curved fingers, among other benefits, provide less finger to run astray and hit something it shouldn't, like, say, the left ring finger hitting the ![[C#4]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/db4.gif) / ![[G#5]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/ab5.gif) pinky lever ever so slightly, venting it a tad, and creating havoc on my producing the desired .
Second, I should probably pull my left wrist up a tad to reduce the occurrence of this left ring finger being where it shouldn't.
But it's more than that. For me, this note seems particular sensitive to not being produced except if my embouchure is on the looser side of normal. I'm definitely taking in enough mouthpiece.
It's just that I have to be extra careful around this note. I wonder why?
I thought that maybe I was twisting the clarinet to the left a tad, when taking the note with the left pinky, but I don't think that this is the case, as I have problems with the note on a right pinky attack too: less likely to throw the clarinet to the left of right and affect my embouchure.
Do you think it could be mechanical? The instrument seals well. Is there something about this note, and is the problem I report more common among players than I've given it credit for being?
Thanks.
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Author: saxlite
Date: 2016-02-17 22:51
Keys can be bent slightly to position them in ways that help to avoid unintended operations- take a close look at what is happening as you play. If you decide to do this, a good tech can make the required adjustments. I personally have bent both "sliver" keys upward to avoid unintended touching.
Jerry
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2016-02-17 23:00
New one on me, Dave. If your l. ring finger is sliding or rolling slightly off it's hole when the pinky is stretching to the C# key, then the ensuing small leak would indeed make the note harder to sound. Ditto for the corresponding fingers on the right when using that side (though the r. side C# key isn't the worst stretch there.)
You might try watching your fingers & embouchure in a mirror while playing this note or to and from it, if you haven't already.
Anything like this happen a 12th down, on low F#?
Hmm - though the pads seal ok, you might also want to consider the height of the opening one for this note, and also whether that pad has gotten fuzzy or ragged, which can alter the note's sound.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2016-02-18 00:17
I'm unsure from your description - is this a problem primarily with the right hand lever, with the left hand lever, or equally on both sides?
I can come up with three or four possible explanations for trouble with RH C#/Db - I deal with some of them myself. The RH C# lever is in an awkward position, worse on some clarinets than others. Most of the problems have to do with pulling other RH fingers slightly off their holes to reach the key.
I'm not as likely to have trouble with LH C#. But if, as you suggest, you're hitting the C#4/G#5 pinky key as you press the C#5 lever on the LH, the easiest solution may be to get the C#/G# out of the way a little by bending it slightly.
Although bending a key is an easy thing to do, sometimes it's better to have a skilled repair tech watch as you play and help decide what to bend, how much and in what direction. Not that DIY key bending is so technical a process, but if you guess wrong too many times you can fatigue the metal with unwanted consequences.
Karl
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2016-02-18 06:57
Pinky keys are a pain, especially the LH levers.
They only seem to be a problem in the clarino register though (unless they're really bad). I think it's because crossing the break is a big change in the air column, and if things don't seal perfect they don't speak.
Make sure none of the corks are lost or torn, and the "crows foot" on the right (attached to the rh F/C key) is touching the rh F#/C# and E/B touchpieces. A good tech should be able to adjust it so that any mechanical trouble is eliminated.
It could also be a pad issue. Pad issues on the pinky keys show up more on the left hand because there is more mechanism and slop in the way. It's easier to whack the pads down flat with the right hand.
Usually, if I bump another key I get a squeak.
- Matthew Simington
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-02-18 07:29
Let's assume I've fingered everything correctly....what about my embouchure might be doing this.
Double lip, which I normally don't play, seems to rectify this often. This doesn't happen on low F#, (fingered identically).
There's just something about this long piped note for me. I don't know what it is.
Would would it be so embouchure sensitive but not the other notes around it?
1960's R13, M15, 3.5 reeds
Doesn't happen on my "A" clarinet.
Post Edited (2016-02-18 07:30)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2016-02-18 08:09
I can't see or hear you, so anything is possible, but I can't imagine an embouchure effect that would cause this without causing a similar problem with any of the other long notes. Especially if it's unique to the your Bb clarinet.
I'm still back on the likelihood of the sides of one or more fingers pulling off their toneholes at the edges just enough to cause this. Or bumping into one or the other "sliver" key. Because the positions of the C#5 levers are just awkward enough to make some players change their hand positions just slightly to reach them.
That double lip seems to help, even if inconsistently, suggests that the problem, whatever it is, is being made worse when you maybe tense up in anticipation of the non-response. Clenching is a little harder with double lip and the force applied around the reed and mouthpiece tends to be better distributed than it is when a single lip embouchure tenses.
Do you ever experience anything like this on any specific note or interval on a trumpet when you play? I have nothing particular in mind - I don't play trumpet well enough even to imagine a similar scenario.
Karl
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2016-02-18 08:17
Trying to visualize what you're suggesting, I get that it would only be your embouchure if you were changing said embouchure for this note alone with no external cause. You would be able to notice if you were.
If you're fingering things correctly, it must be the instrument, as most suggestions have, uh, suggested.
Like the title.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2016-02-18 08:46
I've also had problems with this note, and in my case it comes down to the shape and size of my hands and fingers. On all of my clarinets I have to do a lot of reshaping (a nice term for bending) and thinning of keywork to ensure that sliver keys are out of the way and that the l/h pinky keys are well separated and at different heights. I've also found that for me the height of the lower joint rings is very important. With all of these things adjusted correctly I don't have the problem.
Tony F.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2016-02-18 13:58
There are a few things that can cause a problem with C# (and F#) but not other notes.
First, the most obvious is pressing another key like you suggest. It's possible that you only touch the C#/G# on this clarinet and not your A clarinet, or even other clarinets.
It depends on the shape of your fingers and how you move them, the way you hold the instrument, how each key is positioned, etc.
With the C#/G# keys it's for the left hand lever only, but you might be doing something with your right hand when using the right pinkie C# key (uncovering a hole, etc.).
There is a sneaky mechanical issue that can cause this problem without your fingers doing anything they shouldn't.
Pressing the F#/C# key also closes the F/C key. The F#/C# key to lever linkage has a maximum amount it can travel before "locking" (depending on linkage type). It's possible it reaches this point before the F/C key is completely closing. It's also possible some part of the key or lever is touching another part, causing it to stop before F/C is closing. This won't cause a problem with any other note.
It's likely C# is affected much more than F#. If it's borderline, it's possible you only notice it for C# and not F#.
It's very rare that this happens, but it's another thing to check.
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2016-02-27 22:33
As I get older, I now find passages that were trivial in my youth becoming more prone to errors of this sort.
What I'd say is that the problem may not be where you think it is. Quite often, I can track the difficulty down to something unexpected: lack of covering of a previously unproblematic tonehole, for example.
LH3 and RH3 are common offenders.
But you may find others...
Tony
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2016-02-28 08:04
Dave, thank you. I am surprised, and glad that is solving your problem. I like double lip for several reasons, but none of those are like yours!
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