 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Squidward
Date: 2016-02-15 00:28
I've been having a mechanical problem with my clarinet and was wondering if anyone could give insights. I'll try to be as clear as possible. For reference, I have a LeBlanc Vito student clarinet.
The problem is with a sticking lever that causes the lowermost pad, right above the bell, to stay closed. It's only apparent when playing a specific combination of keys -- using the bottom four right-hand keys (the G#, F#, E and F keys I believe they are called) with the long left-hand side keys (the E and F# key). The issue most often comes up when attempting to play a passage with a C5 and a B4 in succession.
For clarity: ![[C5]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/c5.gif) to a ![[B4]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/b4.gif) .
I depress the keys to play the typical fingering for C5, then attempt to add the outside key with my left hand to play a B4, which closes the bottom-most circular pad right above the bell. That's fine. However, when I release my left pinky to go back to a C, the pad will not open. I have to remove my right hand pinky in order to force the pad to open again. This also occurs when playing any combination of notes in succession using these keys (C#5 is another common one that causes an issue). This is an issue in fast passages where I'm going quickly from C5 to B4, and using the B4 fingering with both pinkies down is more efficient than using only my left pinky. To be clear, I have determined the pad itself is not sticking, it is the lever attached to the pad which, when raised by the left-hand E side key, causes the pad to close.
I hope that makes sense...
I've noticed, though, that this problem gets much worse when my clarinet is cold. I first noticed it during marching band. After about five minutes outside in anything lower than 50 or 60 degrees, the key would begin sticking. Even just walking outside with my clarinet in its case when it's cold out will cause the problem. It seems like it begins to happen as soon as the keys are cold to the touch. It takes between 30 minutes and an hour in a warmer temperature for it to begin working properly again. I haven't taken it to a tech because the problem only seems to happen when its cold (and it wouldn't be if I drove it over and brought it to a tech). The problem is, I live in quite a cold climate, and have to take a 20 minute walk to get to band practice, by which point my clarinet has gotten cold enough for the problem to persist.
Any ideas on what to do... or reassuring that a tech could actually help with this... would be appreciated.
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2016-02-15 01:40
This one's easy...
Take a screwdriver and loosen the pivot screw closest to the bell tenon until the binding stops.
Instruments with synthetic bodies expand and contract with temperature. Sometimes, this can change the distance between pivot points and cause a key to bind.
The Vitos generally have headless pivot screws for this key, so slop in the mechanism can be taken out by tightening up the screw. If you take out every bit of slop at a warm ambient temperature, it can bind when the instrument is played at cooler temperatures. The proper adjustment is to leave just enough play at the pivot point to prevent binding when the instrument is played in cool environs.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-02-15 02:05
Plastic clarinets need to have end play between all the key rods/barrels and their pillars which is relative to the length of the key rod or barrel, so a long key rod such as the LH F/C key will need around 0.5mm or more end play at room temperature to be sure it will still function when cold.
Plastic is less stable than wood with temperature changes and will shrink/expand in all directions as opposed to wood which is mostly affected by changes in humidity levels and will shrink/expand widthways far more than lenghthways.
This is why plastic bass, contra-alto and contrabasses have what may seem like excessive slop in the fit of the keywork, but that is intentional rather than being poor workmanship. If the keys are fitted perfectly between their pillars, then the lot will bind up solid when cold.
There are often complaints about plastic basses having excessive play in their key barrels, but that's done to ensure they will work under low temperature conditions.
But soprano clarinets also need to be set up with end play in the keywork for this reason
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-02-15 04:45
Chris gets to the point. It really is usually the length of the key that is itself that needs to be addressed rather than just the insertion of the pivot (which only adjusts to a small degree).
If you can remove the key (which requires taking off the "F/C" lever and "Ab/Eb" lever too) it is a simple matter of using some wet/dry sandpaper to sand a tiny bit off one end of the key.
The trickiest part of that process is gently disengaging and reengaging the spring on the "Ab/Eb" lever without messing up the spring tension.
If you've never dealt with taking keys off before, I probably wouldn't recommend it.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2016-02-15 05:26
Any technician worth his road salt should be able to solve your problem if you point out the key that binds in cold weather. It doesn't have to bind in his or her presence.
It could be binding between the screws or the posts - or a screw on one side and a post on the other. If you try to move the key back and forth between the posts there should be a little movement felt. This allows for changes due to temperature. If you hold the key at one end and try to move it perpendicular to the access and it has a lot of play, the screw at that end is not the likely culprit. The screw at the other end might be.
Steve Ocone
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-02-15 06:56
Unlikely, but it could be the oil gumming up. I too would loosen the screw first. About a 1/4 turn.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-02-15 10:47
I've had instances at a previous job with Bundys, Vitos and B12s where the LH F/C keys on them would bind up solid overnight if it was fitted as one would do on a wooden clarinet making it a good fit between pillars/points.
Bundys (and B&H clarinets) have parallel sided point screws, so that will allow long key rods to move laterally but still remain in the correct rotational plane (to an extent) whereas Vitos and B12s have tapered point screws so the key will feel very sloppy when the point screws are backed off.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2016-02-15 16:02
>> Take a screwdriver and loosen the pivot screw closest to the bell tenon until the binding stops. <<
There's about a 12.76% that this is the problem. There's also a similar chance that the top screw of that same key is the problem. It could also be one of several other issues, some of which were mentioned.
>> It really is usually the length of the key that is itself that needs to be addressed rather than just the insertion of the pivot (which only adjusts to a small degree). <<
On most clarinet and especially those with headless pivot screws, statistically, screws being too deep cause binding more often than the keys themselves being too long. Of course both are possibilities and even both at the same time.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-02-15 19:19
It will take more than abrasive paper to shorten a key rod sufficiently to make for more end play - as well as abrasive will leave deposits which if not cleaned out thoroughly will cause wear in the countersink in the end of the key rod.
Best method of shortening a key rod is using a suitably shaped steel cutting tool (like a barrel fraise) that's mounted in a bench motor and designed to cut the end of solid key rods cleanly and evenly, leaving the end square as well as not increasing the diameter of the countersink which will make the key rod loose on the point or pivot screw.
Filing is better than sanding in that it won't leave any abrasive particles behind, but you do have to be sure you file the end square, but it will leave file marks and any filings will have to be cleaned up before the key is fitted.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-02-15 22:25
Hey Chris,
I have to politely disagree. I've done this MANY times. Of course mostly on top line professional clarinets, but have never had a problem with this method. Now that I think on it though, I do prefer to use a metal nail file for this job. But it only takes a few swipes.
I've said this before but it bears repetition in this thread. Military bands are often required to play outside in temperatures your average musician would not find acceptable. We'd use plastic clarinets for the low temperature jobs but as the poster, we had the sticky key problem. I would "pre-treat" my assigned horn by sticking it in the refrigerator for about 30 minutes or so, then try the key action. All the rods that were too long at this temperature got shortened......never had a problem on a gig.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-02-15 22:50
The problem manufacturers face is they have to make their plastic bodied instruments suitable for all climates and they don't know where they will end up being sent to and it may not be cost effective to set up every instrument to suit the end buyer from a company management point of view (as it's the head office manager types in large faceless corporate companies that apparently run the shop nowadays).
So they have to try to reach a compromise, but that's not possible as they have to make the key fit on the sloppy side so those that end up in cold places will still work (but may still bind up).
But that doesn't suit everyone as instruments that end up in the tropics will then have excessively sloppy keywork.
If they knew exactly the conditions specific instruments are destined for, then they could tailor make them to suit.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Squidward
Date: 2016-02-17 00:03
I'm not comfortable removing a key to try and fix it myself -- too much potential I'll screw things up worse. I'll be able to get to a tech in about a month, so I'll ask them about it. I guess I'm just looking for reassurance that this is fixable, and my clarinet isn't going to have this problem permanently, which is my fear.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-02-17 03:56
Wise to be cautious. Though, if you start doing little things like, backing out pivots and rods to oil once a month or so, that could get you more confident at perhaps a simpler repair down the road.
Very easy fix! You'll be in good shape.
.............Paul Aviles
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