 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bron357
Date: 2016-01-26 11:05
Needing some input please. We have a stunning Buffet Prestige low C bass clarinet (yes, we mortgaged the house for it) which my daughter loves to pieces and plays well. My Goodness it is beautiful. However, rowdy fun music camps and school functions are not the place for this instrument in case someone knocks it over, drops it etc. Regretfully, now, I sold her Yamaha 221 (too cheap it seems looking around now). So we need a back up bass clarinet. I'm looking second hand, a Yamaha is just a bit too much (We're in Australia so the currency conversion is a killer). What other options? Is a Jupiter ok? Otherwise on eBay US ive seen a Leblanc in wood that looks ok too (more money though). All she really needs is an instrument that is playable and reliable and not too awful sounding. She won't consider a Vito (hmmmm) and we've never seen or heard a Bundy here in Australia. Thoughts, suggestions greatly appreciated. Second hand Bass Clarinets are thin on the ground here so I'm going to have to buy from the US and take my chances. Any recommendations re reliable vendors also much appreciated.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2016-01-26 11:42
My Jupiter (I have the 675) is a very reliable and good-sounding instrument. (It's roughly the same design as the (older) Yamaha 220 or the plastic Vito or the new Selmer 1430LP)
Older Bundies are very good and nearly indestructible instruments.
--
Ben
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2016-01-26 17:55
Your daughter wants the impossible. She can play your Buffet for indoor concerts, but she simply must play a plastic instrument everywhere else. The Buffet can't take the abuse, and plastic basses are created to absorb it.
Absolutely consider a Vito. They're well made and durable. It's your money, so it's your choice.
Bundys are also good and, as Ben says, nearly indestructible. If your daughter is also "allergic" to Bundys, look for a Linton, which is (was) made by Bundy with a different medallion.
Older Leblancs (with a single register key) were well made and will do if you're sure they won't get too much abuse.
Myself, I'd pick a Vito in a minute.
Give your daughter a treat with a Grabner mouthpiece, plus one for yourself. If that's too much money, consider the Behn, Garrett or Fobes student models.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2016-01-26 18:24
When I sell a new wood clarinet to a student, I always tell the parents that they should keep the old plastic clarinet! Usually, it is already paid for, and it fills in for all those times when the clarinet has to be played in a less than optimum environment (pep band, marching band, Christmas caroling, etc).
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
Clarinet Mouthpieces
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2016-01-26 19:00
I like the current Jupiter better than any Vito, Bundy or plastic Selmer, but any of these is ok really. She just shouldn't expect it to be as good as the Buffet, especially the sound of the low D, Db and C.
BTW whether a concert is indoors or outdoors isn't necessarily a reason to play the wood Buffet or the plastic instrument. I've played and have seen others play low C Buffets and Selmers outdoors many times, for good reason.
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Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2016-01-26 19:09
Don't forget the Ridenour Bass Clarinets! Totally professional but durable. Plus - quite affordable.
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2016-01-26 20:16
I second the Ridenour Bass Clarinet. Way better than the Buffet low C I was considering purchasing. Also costs much less Not sure if $3000 is in your budget though. If not a Selmer Bundy bass clarinet is a pretty decent horn.
-Jdbassplayer
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Author: emmett1235
Date: 2016-01-26 22:36
I'm in a similar predicament. I'm looking for an affordable bass for myself (a college student). I have considered Ridenour but was disappointed by his Bb sopranos. I have never heard of Vito though, are they useful? I have a Yamaha Low C (I can't remember the specific model) rented from my university, but I'd like my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-01-26 22:48
Vito are essentially plastic Noblet (Leblanc) basses.
Some Yamaha plastic basses are also Vito stencils - they'll be stamped Yamaha USA.
The most recent Jupiter bass has all the keywork on the body sections and no bell key, so having to worry about getting the bell lined up correctly in order to get a clean low Eb isn't a problem with them.
http://jupitermusic.co.uk/clarinets/jcb-675nii
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2016-01-27 00:22
FYI Ken, the Lintons were made by Malerne, not Bundy.
I second the Vito recommendation. I think they sound a bit better than Bundys.
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Author: Bron357
Date: 2016-01-27 01:29
Thanks all. Wish I hadn't sold the Yamaha 221 it was a very reliable instrument. She started off on school Vito and it was in the shop constantly. Her very first audition was on the Vito and it was a disaster with the instrument again not working properly. Hence her wanting to avoid repeat bad experiences especially now she is in higher bands / orchestras. I'm pretty much forced to buy instruments "sight and sound unseen" from overseas (virtually nothing here secondhand in Australia) in so I'm looking for a more reliable brand and a newer instrument (less problems hopefully). Though now she has the magnificent Buffet I wonder how she'll go "leaving the new Ferrari in the garage and taking out the old Ford!"
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Author: Bron357
Date: 2016-01-27 01:42
From our own experiences the E flat Yamaha 221 (Japan made) was an excellent instrument. However we decided to buy a low C bass. Once we heard the Buffet low C, we were spellbound and then poor. The prices of the Selmer and the Buffet are eye watering to say the least. We did try a Kessler low C but it had some issues. The key work was very stiff and didn't suit my daughter (14 years old with long fingers but not strong fingers!). That instrument was $4,500. There is no intermediate low C model, the Yamaha low C was around $9,000 and we paid $16,000 for the Buffet. Big Ouch!
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Author: Bron357
Date: 2016-01-27 01:56
Our problem is we have to buy without seeing or hearing the instrument. Our only experience with a Vito (a school instrument) was rather soul crushing. I basically only have eBay US to buy from. The Vitos available there seem to be from pawnbrokers, grandpas attic or worse. Shipping to Australia alone is around $200 so buying and sending back if not suitable is a huge expense.
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2016-01-27 03:50
Jupiters are acceptable. The keys are soft. It is about 2 steps down from a plastic Yamaha.
Steve Ocone
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2016-01-27 13:19
The "plastic" Conn bass clarinets sometimes found on eBay are actually hard rubber and made in France by Malerne.
The one I used for a while had a particularly rich and focused sound--certainly much nicer than the Bundy I usually played--and strong key work that included a left-hand Eb/Ab lever.
The neck angle on early examples positions the mouthpiece rather horizontally and may not suit everyone, however--but it's possible that a technician could adjust that.
Still, if in need of a bass on shoestring budget, this is one that I'd opt for.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2016-01-27 20:18
I've posted this many times before, but here we go again...The Malerne bass clarinet design, in both wood and hard rubber (correct, not plastic) versions, has been sold under dozens of brands besides their own -- including Conn, Linton, Olds, York, Penzel-Mueller, Evette-Schaeffer, etc. etc.
I've overhauled and sometimes modified at least a dozen of these over several decades, along with the basically identical alto clarinet versions, and I've made the following observations:
The metal of the keywork is very soft, the tubes are too thin, and so the keywork bends much too easily. The cupronickel alloy they used, unless plated, tarnishes instantly to an ugly yellowish color.
The pivot screws used are very small and frequently made of non-stainless steel, in which case they rust inside the posts and keys.
The neck, as noted, is nearly horizontal and MUST be re-angled for an actual human being to play the instrument without looking like a hound dog baying at the moon.
They do have a very nice sounds in the chalumeau and throat registers, but the clarion register is very stuffy and extremely out of tune. As long as you never have to cross the 'break' you're in good shape.
The "linguini" keywork is comfortable for the hands, at least.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2016-01-27 22:44
Bronwyn,
Contact Eric Satterlee at Meridian Winds in Okemos, MI via email.
He is a dealer as well as a tremendous tech. He usually has Vito or Bundy (my two best choices for you) bass clarinets available and can probably provide you with a used instrument that will play well at a pair price. Tell him I referred you (I am in not way connected with his company).
eBay is a shot in the dark. I've bought and sold and have only been disappointed on very rare occasion. But of course, I know pretty much what to get and what to steer clear of.
Good luck,
HRL
PS I play a Selmer Paris bass and have a Ridenour 925e as my backup; you should have kept the Yamaha 221.
.
Post Edited (2016-02-01 21:14)
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Author: Bron357
Date: 2016-01-29 06:04
Thanks all, I've found a Jupiter to test and there's a "SML" wood bass available interstate which we are keen on to try. I could kick myself for giving up the trusty Yamaha. The problem with school and music camp is that the instruments are to be left out of their cases on stage during lunch, breaks etc because the cases are all kept elsewhere. Everyone is careful but bumps and knocks happen. One knock / fall for a Low C could be bad news. She has "fought" with the band director by refusing to leave the bass on stage and she carried it around with her. Doesn't help that she's on Bassoon as well. Carrying the cases is hard enough! But the bassoon is less likely to be damaged if bumped so she will leave that on the chair or floor (the aren't allowed to take instrument stands on stage).
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Author: Bron357
Date: 2016-01-29 06:06
Hi Walter, what would be the appropriate Grabner bass mouthpiece to buy? She's 14 and playing orchestra and ensemble. Cheers Bronwyn.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2016-01-29 08:22
The "SML" bass clarinet is probably (yes, you guessed it!) yet another Malerne stencil. So don't get too excited over it.
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Author: Geronimo
Date: 2016-02-01 20:05
If we are discussing "back up" basses nearly all of the previous mentions should be considered (Vito, Bundy, LeBlanc, Yamaha, espically the ridenour)
I think one consern that has not been brought up is having a great repair tech look over your bass. I was able to get my hands on an old low C LeBlanc for almost nothing and saved up to have it rebuilt/overhauled. Now I use in in my college ensambles and haven't had much trouble with it.
Even new instruments will need adjustment. I believe you and your daughter got a bad impression from the Vito because it was in less than ideal condition. I understand that overhauling a new/used instrument sounds unnecessary but please seriously consider it. Especially with bass clarinets, where one small leak could cause big trouble for the whole instrument.
-Geronimo
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