 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2015-12-26 19:59
I have a Selmer basset horn (this horn has the narrow bore). My best mouthpiece -reed combination is a fairly open Clark Fobes mouthpiece and 2 1/2 AW basset horn reeds. It still is not quite as free-blowing as i would like so I would appreciate other suggestions by people that have a similar bore size basset horn.
I do realize that basset horns with this bore size are going to sound more veiled but I would like to get as much projection and dynamic range as possible. This horn is very in tune with itself throughout its range, which is nice. Much better than others I've played/ owned.
Thanks for your suggestions.
Eefer guy
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-12-26 21:18
Maybe try a mouthpiece with its bore enlarged for use with a B&H 1010 or Peter Eaton Elite. There are makers who copy the 1010 style mouthpiece such as Ed Pillinger or Brian Ackerman and as Rossi also make 1010 bore clarinets, perhaps they can also supply or suggest a larger bore mouthpiece.
Also Pomarico crystals can have a much larger bore than most - I use a Vandoren A1 crystal with my ancient Selmer basset horn (with ring keys) but lengthened the crook by around 10mm to make it play in tune with itself.
But if it's playing nicely in tune with itself (apart from maybe some of the lower notes which are variable on Selmer basset horns), then try different reeds with your mouthpiece or experiment with existing reeds by scraping/sanding them at specific locations on the scrape to see if that frees tings up without altering the strength.
I think Selmer supply a C85 mouthpiece with them, but it's a standard (unaltered) one as opposed to one with a large bore.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-12-26 21:23
Duplicate post
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2015-12-27 01:17)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bill28099
Date: 2015-12-27 00:48
I have an old narrow bore Selmer basset. I've found the best playing mouth piece is an OLD Portnoy BP-02. Please note my term OLD, I've a newer Portnoy that doesn't work. The mouthpiece is stamped BP-02, has no other markings and a slightly green tinge. I find the horn to be very resistant and not very fun to play. Check with Walter Grabner, he might have some suggestions.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2015-12-27 02:31
I use a Pillinger 926 bore mouthpiece with 1.2 mm opening on my Selmer basset horn which seems to work well with V12 2.5 reeds or blue box 2.0 - 2.5 reeds suitably adjusted.
It is unrealistic to expect large projection or a wide dynamic range from this narrow bore instrument. It's design is closer to a classical basset and it's veiled character is what should be expected (and certainly more what Mozart expected).
If you want large projection then buy a Leblanc basset which is essentailly an Alto clarinet pitched in F with a basset extension. Arguably this is more suited to modern orchestral use, especially in works by R Strauss, than a Selmer but it's horses for courses.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-12-27 06:44
If your Selmer basset horn is pretty much as it was when you bought it and it hasn't had a real proper set-up done to it, then it will benefit from having the ventings increased considerably compared to the factory set-up which is just to get it working and out the factory door regardless how low they set the ventings on the lower joint and main action. That will free things up if the lower register is particularly stuffy and if the tuning is a bit hit and miss between low E and low C.
The Leblanc has the biggest sound of the three major French makes of Boehm system basset horns due to having a wide alto clarinet bore (18mm I think) and mouthpiece, but out of all three, the Buffet has the best keywork by far. The Buffet has a medium bore (17mm) but uses an alto clarinet mouthpiece - it has the same bore size as a Yamaha alto clarinet.
Even though my old Selmer is a narrow bore (16.2mm) and ring key model, its tone is far superior to that of the older Uebel Boehm system basset horns from the '70s which are a medium bore model, but like Selmer basset horns will take a standard Bb mouthpiece.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Wes
Date: 2015-12-27 08:33
For a great Series 9 Selmer basset horn I have, the Selmer C85 mouthpiece is very good. Some other mouthpieces that work fine on soprano clarinets don't project as well. Now, if I could only find a gig!
My basset horn failed to sell on auction, despite being discussed on this site at great length. The posters did not know what to make of it, so I mailed the seller and asked them what they really wanted for it. The price was so low I could not pass it up, but I've found little actual use for it. The quality of the wood is very high.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2015-12-27 09:58
Thank you all for your opinions. I like the idea of giving it an overhaul to try to open up the sound a bit too as well as the mouthpiece suggestions. I think part of my problem is that I owned a LeBlanc basset horn before this one and it played easily, like an alto clarinet. The Selmer has a much more veiled sound and it shouldn't sound like an alto clarinet. In fact it sounds like a Bb clarinet.
This horn is so in tune with itself though I'm very excited, only varies a few cents except for the low C#, which is rather rarely used.
I'm playing the Mozart Requiem in March and have had other smaller jobs with it and my LeBlanc before this one. Am also doing the two Concert Pieces for Bb and basset horn with a local clarinetist just for fun. Very virtuosic parts!
Eefer guy
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Hurstfarm
Date: 2015-12-27 19:22
For my Selmer I've tried various options including the wide bore Peter Eatons suggested by Chris above, which would have been a convenient solution as my main instruments are Eaton Elites. However, my preferred setup is a Grabner K14 - good tone and intonation, and seems to give better projection than others I have tried. It's still not a big sound though, which calls for some sensitivity from colleagues when you're paired with someone on a wide bore Leblanc or Buffet.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2015-12-27 20:57
I'll give Walter a buzz in Monday. I like his mouthpieces and use them on my two contras.
Luckily the Mozart Requiem is fairly thinly scored and the basset horns are paired so that helps with the basset horn being heard. If I'm coupled with a LeBlanc horn I might just transpose the part and play it on my Buffet Prestige alto. It will certainly match the LeBlanc.
Thanks for all of your help!
Eefer guy
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BartHx
Date: 2015-12-27 22:00
bill28099: Your comments about the Portnoy BP-02 surprise me. A couple of years ago, I was looking for a new mouthpiece for my Selmer Bb collection (all large bore). My brother loaned me a BP-02 mouthpiece which he had gotten for his Centeed Tone when we were in high school in the '60s and I loved it. Although neither of us are professional musicians, he had used it a lot for many years until he had gotten to the point in his career that he could treat himself to a new, matched pair of Buffet R-13s. He still carried the Portnoy mouthpiece as a backup. I ordered a new Portnoy BP-02 to try and was delighted to discover that it was nearly identical in response to the old one. My brother gave me his old Portnoy to carry as a backup so that he, too, got to get a new mouthpiece.
Now that I am a certifiable "old fart", my regular player is a Selmer Series 9 and my backup is a Centered Tone (I had to get my own -- I couldn't talk my brother out of his) with the old BP-02 mouthpiece. In the community bands in which I play, I am constantly getting gas about my gig bag being easily identified. It is the only one with two old Selmer Bbs. On the other hand, when their instruments break, they don't seem to mind playing my Centered Tone until I finish repairing their instruments. I even carry a couple of different length barrels to match it to their own mouthpieces. I have been known to be repairing a clarinet during a concert intermission. So far, I have never had to resort to my backup myself in order to keep playing.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bill28099
Date: 2015-12-28 00:48
Bart, I normally play a Backun/Morales on the Bb which is a Leblanc Dynamique 5xx. It is in fact the best horn I own baring none and I have always preferred Leblancs from the 50s when you can find a good one. When switching between the Portnoy and the Backun one notices little difference. Now the Portnoy that doesn't work is just marked with his logo but there is no BP number. Under the logo it is marked De8 Artistes This mouthpiece appears to be plastic, not hard rubber like the BP02. The Backun/Morales works also on the basset horn.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2015-12-28 03:21
Wes mentions a series 9 basset horn. Is there indeed such a thing?
The Selmer bassets are made in such small numbers they are essentially handmade and the "modern" Selmer basset appears virtually identical to mine which is over 40 years old (but looks like new - they don't get played much).
I believe at some stage they rationalised the keywork/fingering of some of the basset notes to try and establish an industry norm but that's about it.
I can't imagine Selmer investing the time and money to change the "series" of the basset in the way they do for the high volune sopranos or even the medium volume basses when they only make a handful each year.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-12-28 04:15
The basset notes still have the same basic layout as my old 3-figure serial number basset horn (with wing/globe and oval Selmer logo). They're essentially a copy of the old Buffet design from the late 1800s/early 1900s and the only significant change since mine is they've been fitted with covered fingerplates instead of having ring keys. But apart from that, very little in terms of research and development has gone into them.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BartHx
Date: 2015-12-28 07:16
Bill, that makes more sense. I misunderstood your original comments. I would try to blame it on age, but my brother is older than I and still actively teaching at a major university (I couldn't bring myself to leave the classroom completely and am still a regular sub at our local high school). In any event, the hard rubber BP-02 mouthpiece is still available at a very reasonable price.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Wes
Date: 2015-12-28 08:41
The serial number of my Selmer basset horn is T64xx from about 1964 and I recall that it says Series 9 on it, a beautifully made instrument. I overhauled it and buffed the keys. The tuning is good. The more recent instruments have slightly different low note keying, I understand.
I don't have it handy as I've stored it and other instruments elsewhere because the HOA of this 22 unit complex decided to have the whole complex termite tented. Only 2 units showed evidence of termites and those could have been locally treated. I was the only one who opposed the tenting with poison gas.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-12-28 09:01
I just checked the bore size and the current Selmer basset horn (and presumably those going back 40-50+ years) is .621" which is 15.77mm in new money.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bill28099
Date: 2015-12-28 21:34
My Selmer basset horn is with out a shadow of a doubt marked Series 9 with some leaf underneath. Serial # is T64xx and my estimates of age agree with Wes. The bore, measured up ~1" from the bottom of the upper joint is .620"
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2015-12-29 01:22
Interesting comparisons.
My basset is ser U8xxx circa 1965
There is no model designation marked antwhere just the Selmer Paris logo and "Made in France".
The bore throughout entire upper and lower joints and very bottom of crook/neck is 15.9mm (0.626").
Bore at top of crook slightly oval approx 15.8 - 16.0 mm so again averages 15.9mm.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-12-29 02:13
I can't make out the serial number easily on mine but it looks like 879 - the crook bore is 15.4mm at its widest and the top joint bore is 15.9mm (at the middle tenon). The lower joint bore flares out from halfway between the two lowest toneholes and then again but more abruptly in the tenon to 19mm+.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bill28099
Date: 2015-12-29 08:05
Since we are measuring I did my whole instrument. The crook from is .626 +/- .001 Now the horn itself is interesting being .620 from top to bottom. No flaring at the bottom on this instrument.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Wes
Date: 2015-12-29 08:18
In regard to tuning, I found that my basset horn warms up very slowly but eventually gets to A440. It takes at least 10 minutes to warm up. So I made an alternate crook from copper plumbing parts from the hardware store which is shorter and allows quicker playing at pitch. I have two original crooks but they are both the same. I'd like to buy a new case but the Selmer accessories catalog does not carry them any more.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-12-29 09:13
And if you want a case, a Selmer (Bam) case is the last thing you would want to carry it around in.
I had to lengthen the crook on mine as it played too sharp in the LH notes, so I found the ideal length by pulling out until it was in tune with itself. I unsoldered the crook tenon from the crook tube (which runs the entire length of the tenon), fitted a spacer at the free end of the tenon (so there's no step in the bore), then soldered it all back together and fitted a new tenon cork. The extra length can only be seen if you look inside the crook tenon and I was lucky to have a piece of nickel silver tubing just the right inside and outer diameter to make the extension/spacer from.
On this basset horn, absolutely every single piece of nickel silver tubing and all the socket rings are made from seamed tubing. Some keys even have solid silver key barrels (also seamed), but everything apart from those key barrels is unplated nickel silver. The flat springs are incredibly long, so replacements are only likely to be made from clock springs.
One thing I did was shorten the speaker tube with disastrous results, but I soldered it back together again and fitted it in such a way so it doesn't intrude so far into the bore as it once did which makes cleaning it out a pain as the pullthrough weight wouldn't pass by it or it got stuck, but as I've fitted it with more protruding on the outside (like a Buffet Vintage), that's sorted that problem out.
One thing I will have to do is fit two thumb keys to it. The original low D key is where the LH Ab/Eb lever is normally found on clarinets and I've since turned what was the low D key to the LH Ab/Eb lever, so at present it has no low D key at all. So I want to add a LH low D lever under the LH F/C lever as on modern bassets and low C basses as well as thumb keys for low D and low C.
I don't particularly care for the whale tail-shaped low D and C thumb touches on Selmer basset horns, so will be fitting more aesthetically pleasing teardrop-shaped touches like the LH thumb touches on French bassoons (and I have an old Selmer bassoon to cannibalise these keys and other parts from for this purpose). Just need to fit the necessary pillars, then I can make and fit the keywork so low C can be made with the thumb touch alone instead of the low Db key plus the LH F/C lever.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2015-12-29 20:50
I find it annoying that the Selmer basset horn reverses the usual position of the low Eb. I keep hitting the Db instead of Eb. Did the older Selmers use this same position for the low Db?
My Selmer came with two crooks and one plays a bit sharper so that solves the warmup problem pretty well.
The case is another issue. The case was made and is monogrammed "Selmer USA". It is a horrible case. There is NO place for the extremely long peg and the peg in moving around has put a small ding in the bell just from carrying it around. Not good. I have heard that Selmer ships their horns from France in bubble wrap and then the put into a case in the US but i don't know if that is true. Certainly the non-Paris case speaks to this too.
I would REALLY like to get a good case for this horn. Crazy to have such a great horn in a case meant for a Bundy saxophone. Any suggestions would be welcome.
Eefer guy
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-12-30 03:10
Selmer low C basses from the '80s (C and D series) have the RH pinky keys in this fashion as do their basset clarinets. But their basses made before and since are laid out in the more 'normal' configuration so it makes changing between other makes much easier.
If you carry it around in a Bundy alto sax case, you're far less likely to have it stolen!
The only thing I can suggest is have an alto sax or a trumpet case adapted on the inside to fit it (and special loops to hold the spike securely) provided the case is long enough to house the lower joint and deep enough for the diameter of the bell.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bill28099
Date: 2015-12-30 03:24
Ebclarinet1
My Eb and Db are the same as yours
To get low D hit the thumb, which is very stiff if you don't add Eb
Low C is hit by playing Db plus left hand pinky F
If you hit left hand pinky F you actually close the low C vent too. It's so far down the stack that it doesn't matter.
I would have thought new bassets would have improved fingerings more like modern bass clarinets.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-12-30 03:38
Selmer have stuck with this same mechanism for probably a century now.
That's why I bought a Buffet RC Prestige basset horn a while back as it's much easier to live with, but the extra G/D vent (the lower of the two F/C key pad cups) tends to stick to its tonehole when playing F-G or C-D, so I put a cable tie around the adjusting screw to lock both pad cups together so the lower one is helped to open.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2015-12-30 03:47
Thanks for all of your suggestions. bill28099, I'm in Salem OR even though my satellite is from Texas! Nice to know there's another basset horn so close!
I hadn't tried using the F key to get the low notes. Nice trick!
Do you think Selmer would sell a Paris case for this horn??
Buffet had like a 15 month wait to get a basset horn. I probably should have waited rather than getting a Selmer right away. Oh well, I do enjoy playing the horn, despite its problems. I ordered a new mouthpiece from Walter grabner today that he thinks will help.
Eefer guy
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bill28099
Date: 2015-12-30 07:53
Sent you an email Eefer
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
