 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Melats
Date: 2015-11-04 21:32
Just bought a Selmer Signet 100 wooden clarinet serial #146038. The top and bottom joints clearly are wood. The barrel however, is plastic both by appearance and by a hot needle test. The bell is the big question. It seems to be something other than wood. The "grain" is virtually non existent and very tight if it is wood. It looks shinier than what I would expect a wooden bell to be. It doesn't appear to be affected by a hot needle. It has the standard Selmer Signet logo stamped on it.
My question is, could the bell be some sort of composite and can either the plastic barrel or a non-wooden bell be the original parts of this clarinet?
I can't seem to find anything on this board or elsewhere to answer this so I would appreciate any comments.
Thanks,
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Author: knotty
Date: 2015-11-04 22:05
I have three Sig 100's and they all are solid wood. I'm not sure but think there was a plastic Signet too, perhaps yours is a hybrid.
~ Musical Progress: None ~
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2015-11-04 22:29
Signet's sister marque, Bundy, made wooden-bodied clarinets with synthetic bells and barrels, so it's certainly possible that a lower-priced Signet could've been offered equipped the same way. Normandy and Amati also sold instruments in this configuration.
But, there was also an all-synthetic Signet Resonite model. Your clarinet may be all original, or with a bell and barrel from the Resonite model.
Personally, I think the stability and dimensional integrity of a synthetic barrel makes a lot of sense and I have used them almost exclusively for a few years now. If your Signet plays well as-is, relax and enjoy.
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Author: Melats
Date: 2015-11-04 22:49
Thank you so much knotty for your quick response.
It occurred to me that I might have a "hybrid" of some sort. The barrel could easily have been switched by previous owners but the bell is clearly marked Selmer Signet 100. So it seems unlikely that it was switched by a previous owner and therefore came that way from Selmer.
Since you have three Signets that are all wooden, it gives me assurance that there is something odd about my clarinet. That is valuable information.
The instrument is in very good shape otherwise. No cracks--all keys tight and functional. Right now I have it stripped ready for a good scrubbing, pad replacement and adjustment. I can easily get a better barrel for it and I don't think that the bell, even if it is a composite, will affect its play-ability. Can't wait to try it.
Being an owner of three Signets, you must really think they are pretty good. That's good news to me.
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Author: Melats
Date: 2015-11-04 23:15
Thanks Greg,
I appreciate your input that there is a precedence for this configuration. As I said to knotty, it will be a while till I have it together again and able to relax and try it. I was really more curious than anything about the combination of parts and whether it was original. My clarinet playing skill level is such that I'm sure I won't know the difference with either the plastic barrel or the bell. I'm just a retired engineer who likes to tinker and restore clarinets to a good playing condition to give family and friends or to a needy young person who might benefit from a better horn. I just finished three Boosey Edgeware's and gave them away. It's very satisfying. The Boosey was the clarinet I started playing many years ago.
Regards,
Lee
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Author: Wes
Date: 2015-11-05 00:07
Yes, I bought a Signet 100 for $100 for my granddaughter a few years ago. With a very careful overhaul and a little bit of tuning, it plays great and she has been for some time the first chair player in the Kingsburg high school band. I felt that it could be used in any good ensemble, or as a backup for a Buffet R13.
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Author: Melats
Date: 2015-11-05 00:27
Wes,
Thanks for your response.
I can appreciate the feeling you had by giving the Signet 100 to your granddaughter. We just returned from a family visit in GA where I gave one of the Boosey Edgewares I restored to my granddaughter.
She, like your granddaughter, is in the middle school band but she is not ready yet for first chair. Perhaps when I get this Signet done I can offer her a swap and motivate her into first chair.
Thanks,
Lee
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2015-11-05 01:31
One thing I just remembered about the Signet Resonite: these have white decal-type logos on all four joints, not the traditional stamped-in logos as found on the Signet 100 and Special. Your bell clearly says Selmer Signet 100, so it's very likely to be original. If your barrel lacks a white Signet decal, assuming that there was never one there that wore away, it too should be original for your Signet 100.
Hope this helps put your mind at ease!
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Author: Melats
Date: 2015-11-05 03:07
Greg,
Yes the bell has the stamped-in Selmer 100 logo and the barrel is unmarked. So, it seems that your logic is making sense. At any rate, I'm giving this instrument away, so either way if I overhaul it right, it should make someone happy (maybe my granddaughter).
I really appreciate your comments and all others as well. I've been lurking on this website for a very long time and have learned so much about clarinets and their complexity.
Regards,
Lee
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-11-05 03:16
Maybe the bell is Bakelite which is a very dense phenolic resin.
Fairly often you find wooden bodied clarinets with plastic bells and barrels, but Signets tended to be all wood, so maybe the barrel and bell were replaced with plastic ones for various reasons. If they're Selmer USA barrels and bells, then there shouldn't be a problem and more of a bonus as wooden barrels can crack.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Melats
Date: 2015-11-05 04:11
Chris,
The bell may be Bakelite because as I recall that material would be rather impervious to the hot needle test--correct me if I'm wrong. Whereas the hot needle caused an immediate reaction to the barrel--they are clearly of different materials. It's just possible that the bell is wood and I'm not experienced enough to tell the difference. If it is wood, Selmer did an outstanding job of making it look synthetic. But at the very least it's suspicious.
Either way I'm not so much concerned about the play-ability of the clarinet or value because I got it at a good price from Ebay. From what I've learned so far, if I get the overhaul correct, it will make a decent clarinet for an intermediate player. It is more a curiosity than anything--I just love a mystery.
Thank you for your input as I know you are a long time contributor to this forum and value your opinion as well as the others who have responded. As I mentioned previously I've been lurking on this forum for a very long time and have gotten priceless information.
Thanks,
Lee
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-11-05 04:48
Wooden Selmer USA clarinets (and oboes) usually tend to have marks left from sanding the joints while they've been rotating instead of being highly polished, so the scratches will be radial and more helical running around the joints at an angle against the bore rather than being lengthways, straight and running parallel with the bore as they are on plastic instruments given a matt wood-like appearance.
But plastic instruments will usually only have the finish on the outside of the joints and sometimes on the inside of the bell, but more often than not it's only the outside that gets the dull finish and not the inside (bore and sockets) which will be left very shiny. Bakelite instruments will also have a very shiny appearance and they'll give off a strong smell when burnt.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Melats
Date: 2015-11-05 20:08
Chris,
I don't see clear signs of rotating marks perpendicular to the bore but neither are there straight marks in-line with the bore. I cleaned the joint with a solvent but this didn't make things any clearer. I also tried the hot needle test again but there was no noticeable affect or smell.
If I really take a close look at the bell with a hand magnifier, I see very small flecks which might be evidence of wood grain. The thing that's puzzling is if I rotate the bell these tiny flecks are very uniform like it was made from some synthetic material. The finish on the bell also contributes to this synthetic look because it looks like what you would find on very fine furniture--a highly polished shellac or polyurethane. I don't have experience with many clarinets so it may be the look that Selmer wanted and other manufacturers as well. If it is wood, it must be a very fine grained piece and very dense.
Thanks for your input. As I said before, it is more my curiosity and wanting to learn more about clarinet making that I made this post.
Lee
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