 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: as9934
Date: 2015-08-01 22:00
Hey guys,
So on recommendation from a professional clarinetist I took a lesson with I went ahead and purchased a box of Vandoren V21 reeds. My question regard finishing them so they can be played. I know that a ton of people here are wild about the the Ridenour ATG system, but I really don't have $80 to spend right now, and I have marching band camp starting on Monday, were I will need some decent reeds to play. In the past to break in my reeds I have always just soaked them for about a minute in lukewarm water, sanded the back and sides until it felt smooth and then played for about 3 minutes. But the ATG system seems to be all about sanding just the tip of the reed. Can't I just replicate the same method with a piece of fine sandpaper and some glass? Should I hold of on breaking in these reeds today for use on Monday and just use my (frankly too old, but probably fine for marching band) Reserve Classics? Is there any way I could get the ATG system for under $20?
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Wind Ensemble
Buffet E11 clarinet , Vandoren Masters CL6 13 series mouthpiece w/ Pewter M/O Ligature, Vandoren V12 3.5
Yamaha 200ad clarinet, Vandoren B45 mouthpiece, Rovner ligature
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-08-01 23:26
I think I'd commented on a similar topic that you'd brought up in the past but I will make another stab at it.
For me, I would take the time to break in the reeds (soak, play, rest, repeat) for a full three days or so BEFORE making any adjustments. It almost sounds like you haven't tried that yet. Vandoren provides finished reeds (as good as you can get from someone else machining for an unknown player and set-up that is). So see how they play first. I don't find that a smooth surface necessarily makes any difference to how they play, so audition first, then adjust if necessary.
So the ATG system might be great (never tried it), but the premise sounds no different than the pre-made Vandoren reed itself. You use a prefab (from what I am to understand) shape to impose on the reed. This doesn't take the reed, you, or the mouthpiece into consideration, so I don't see how this is magically going to make all reeds play better.
Just try the reeds first and see what happens. I personally do no modification to reeds at all and get seven to nine usable V21s out of a box. Just keep in mind though these reeds (like the V12 cousin) take longer to settle down and may change (actually WILL change) even a week down the road.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2015-08-01 23:44
Ari,
May the marching band gods forgive me...
For marching band, and especially marching band camp, put whatever reed-shaped object you have that works on your mouthpiece and just play it. Save the expensive V21s for something musical.
If you have nothing else that's playable at hand, shame on you. You should never be down to that. But if that's the case, go through the box, find the most playable two and use those - just play them for the week and leave the others alone.
Save all the formal break-in and adjusting for practicing at home and playing indoors in a concert band setting.
Karl
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Author: donald
Date: 2015-08-02 04:10
I can't help thinking that Paul is mistaking the ATG "method" for the Armato reed wizzard when he wrote...
"You use a prefab (from what I am to understand) shape to impose on the reed. This doesn't take the reed, you, or the mouthpiece into consideration"
I'm sure he knows the difference, but might have been in a rush?
Any rate, use your old reeds for marching band and break the V21s in more cautiously, as others suggest (and you suspected would be the case).
If you can't afford the ATG system (which, while it gives you some tools, is really a series of useful and well thought out instructions guiding your efforts to balance the reed) you could do a little research and find this article in The Clarinet....
“The Reed Connection,
Part I and II in
The Clarinet
July/August
1991 and November/December 1991 by
Henry Larsen."
If you search for "Floyd Williams" and "Reeds" (Reed Connection) you also find a shorter article, available on line, that Floyd wrote for the Australian Clarinet/Saxophone Journal in 2003. This article roughly follows the same approach as the Larsen one. Floyd Williams is one of Australias most esteemed teachers and most Pro players in Aussie (there's lots of them and they are GOOD) can trace their "teacher lineage" back to Floyd. He knows what he is talking about (as does Ridenour, don't get me wrong- and he is very skilled at giving clear and simple instructions that WORK)
dn
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Author: Ed
Date: 2015-08-02 15:27
Quote:
you could do a little research and find this article in The Clarinet....
“The Reed Connection, Part I and II in The Clarinet July/August 1991 and November/December 1991 by Henry Larsen."
These articles are also reprinted in Larsen's Analysis and Study Guide for the Rose Etudes http://www.vcisinc.com/clarinetmusicstudies.htm#C046
The Rose guide contains many great ideas for approaching these etudes. The reed articles give a very thoughtful and methodical approach to working on reeds.
Post Edited (2015-08-02 20:33)
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Author: Bob Barnhart ★2017
Date: 2015-08-02 20:51
I'm probably "old school", but having grown up with Bonade's "Clarinetist's Compendium", I've primarily relied on Reed Rush for balancing/adjusting reeds, mostly for convenience. See: http://www.conn-selmer.com/files/5713/4073/1497/AVP74_Leblanc_Clarinetists_Compendium.pdf
I carry a small box of reed rush (cut into 1/4" squares) and a small 2x4" plate (mine is plexiglass, but glass would be better). These tools allow me to adjust reeds wherever I am.
Generally, I believe that one has to make the reed's strength/flexibility/response at all points of the vamp "match" the corresponding points of the mouthpiece's facing. To do this, I believe it is important to select a reed that is "close" to begin with--you don't want to have to do a lot of work. Be open/objective about different maker's reed products and strengths. Experiment and find out what works best for you. This may take some time/money but it is worth it. For example, years ago I always played V12s because everyone said they were the best. However after objective experimentation, for the past five years I've played mainly VD Traditional #3 because they are a better match for the mouthpieces I'm playing now and produce better results with less effort. Some makers produce reeds in 1/4 strengths (e.g., Gonzales) that may be worth a try.
I use a plastic "tackle box"(?) with 2x6 compartments to work on reeds. The lower row holds new reeds out of the box. I cycle reeds in preparation through the 6 compartments in the upper row, soaking/playing and possibly working on each reed each day until (1) they're ready to play after 6 days, or (2) they're not worth any more effort and I throw them out. (I've tried Paul's recommendation about not adjusting a reed in the first 2-3 days, but some reeds need early help).
Mostly I follow Bonade's methods, using the rush to (1) "polish" the entire vamp to remove uneven areas, (2) thin/balance the tip, and (3) thin/balance the sides. For me I've noticed that if I work the right half of the vamp it improves response, and if I work the left half it improves the sound. Perhaps experimentation would reveal techniques that work consistently for you.
I occaisionally use a Reed Wizard to balance/soften really hard/stuffy/unresponsive reeds and sometimes sand the backs using 400A sandpaper on a glass plate.
Learning to adjust reeds is itself an art and one that is tailored specifically to you and your equipment, but it is an art worth learning.
Good luck!
Bob Barnhart
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2015-08-03 21:16
AS9934:
I believe I have a Gen 1 ATG system you can have. Email me and I'll send it to you free of charge. It works perfectly, but I cracked the lid holding the solid surface and I didn't care for gluing the edges of the sand paper to hold on the foam surface block. The newer ATG uses a good old fashion rubber band, which works perfectly.
Let me know.
~Robt L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage
Lig: Ishimori, Behn Delrin
Reed: Legere French Cut 3.75/4, Behn Brio 4
Horns: Uebel Superior (Bb,A), Ridenour Lyrique, Buffet R13 (Eb)
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Author: as9934
Date: 2015-08-04 04:24
@ClarinetRobt Thank you so much!! I just sent you an email.
@donald I read the article you suggested and it was very informational. I knew some of the stuff from previous reading on the subject but it's always nice to know more!
@Paul_Aviles I did as you suggested and play tested all the reeds. All 10 were usable but 2 were a bit stuffy and may require adjustment. I sealed them in a gallon sized Ziploc bag and plan to play one a day for 10 mins.
General comments about the reeds; All the reeds were very rich in tone, but had a nice light bounce to them. Dynamics were easy to express from pp to ff. The actual reeds remind of the Rico Grand Concert Select Thicks I used to play.
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Wind Ensemble
Buffet E11 clarinet , Vandoren Masters CL6 13 series mouthpiece w/ Pewter M/O Ligature, Vandoren V12 3.5
Yamaha 200ad clarinet, Vandoren B45 mouthpiece, Rovner ligature
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