The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Kenton153
Date: 2015-03-03 09:52
I had a lesson from a teacher whom owns a tosca bass clarinet. i played his instrument for about 20 minutes. Not much time, but enough time to get "acquainted"
Throughout High School i frequently switched between a buffet Prestige (school owned and well maintained by me) and a selmer bass clarinet(my personal instrument). . FWIW, all three were/are low C instruments.
The FIRST thing i played was a chromatic scale. I did this specifically to get an idea of how the throat Bb sounds compared to other notes around it, and of course... the B natural. They are not kidding when they say they have SOLVED the problem of intonation and timbre matching.
Intonation: This was the best aspect of the horn IMHO. Very even, and very true, need i say more? I believe this is one of the most important aspects of an instrument.
Tone: To my ear and my taste, this is where the instrument left a little to be desired. The room i played in was an average living room size, and the horn felt somewhat stuffy. Granted, this could mean that it possesses a certain projection that i wasn't able to experience in that location. Overall, i felt like i had to force the sound quite a bit. I have always felt this way about the Prestige, but i felt it to be even more noticeable on the Tosca.The upper clarion didn't seem to have that much weight to it, and it seemed very difficult to get a "full" sound out of the low register. Of course, I am used to playing a selmer, and my ear is more acquainted to that type of soundscape.
Response: I played a few excerpts. Rite of Spring, Khachaturian Piano Con., On the trail and some others. Despite having a rather constrained tone, the horn responded with ease. The altissimo register played almost identically to a Prestige regarding intonation, and the fingerings i used. i was pleased at how easy articulation was on the instrument.
Keywork/ Ergonomics: The instrument felt substantial in your hands. Arms and elbows will fall into a realxed position and the finger touches lineup with your fingertips at comfortable angles.
I'm very happy they reworked the extended range fingerings. The rollers they added to the Low C/C# cluster was absolutely necessary. That is one element i felt was deeply missed from the Prestige. Also, i'm happy they changed the low D thumb key into a low Eb key. I thought it was absolutely silly to have THREE fingerings for 1 note and One fingering for another note like it was on the Prestige. Now there is two ways to finger any pinky note, left or right and any passage is possible.
Try going back and forth between Low Eb, Low Ab, left hand Db, back down to Low Ab and then to Low Eb. That passage is IMPOSSIBLE without a thumb Eb.
(the selmer has had a thumb Eb for 10 year now
I used a Clark foes HB "massaged" by Brad Behn with a #3 v12 reed.
CONCLUSION: The mechanism for the Bb and B natural is superb. truly beautiful and i can't wait for it to become standard on all professional level instruments. The tone is the only aspect of this instrument that didn't please me. This is a well made and well thought out instrument. We are headed in a great direction with musical instrument technology.
Post Edited (2015-06-05 09:58)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-03-03 15:54
I have a Prestige bass from 2000 and was wondering if the Tosca bass was any better - if it has a smaller sound, then I'll stick with my Prestige.
I do love the Selmer sound being a Selmer player, but like the Prestige bass due to how well balanced the keywork is, but just wish it had a much fatter sound.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2015-03-03 17:52
I have only one short experience with the Tosca bass clarinet. I was very impressed. My opinion may be influenced by the fact that this was "hand picked" in France.
Steve Ocone
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Author: Kenton153
Date: 2015-03-03 21:38
Granted a small sound in a small room in my head does NOT mean that it would in a concert hall or just out in the open to who ever is listening rather than playing.
But i was rally taken aside by how compressed the sound seemed in my head. It just doesn't appeal to my tonal concept. I also thought as a result, it had a kind of buzzy sound because i kind of had to force the sound out.
The one i played was also "handpicked" in France. It is currently being used by a well known and fabulous player in America. He had a prestige before, and sounded phenomenal on that, and he still sounds incredible on his tosca. To each his own.
Ear>instrument
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2015-03-04 10:46
Unfortunately you could write a book about the problems with both of the top models from Buffet and Selmer bass clarinets made right now.
At least they both improved the design of the long low keys and linkages, but the mechanism in general (especially on the Selmer) and QC (on both) on the last few of each I saw was unbelievably bad.......
I'm wondering how much they would cost without all those design and QC issues. Maybe double...?
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Author: HANGARDUDE
Date: 2015-03-05 16:44
Chris, from a side-by-side review of a Prestige and a Tosca bass(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGMWETad1lk), I find the Tosca has a clearer and focussed sound. For volume I'd say they sound almost equal, with the Tosca having a bit more edge to it. But for a fatter sound, I'd say the Prestige is fatter.
P.S. Chris, may I digress, if you want a fatter sound on your Prestige, you can consider a cheaper alternative: Get a neck from the Das Blashaus in Switzerland(http://www.blashaus.ch/exklusiv/bassklarinetten-hals/). It has a fatter sound than the stock Buffet neck(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_i9TA0Kh2E). Plus you can determine the angle you want if you're not happy with that on your present neck. Hope this helps!
Josh
Post Edited (2016-06-09 12:28)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-03-05 18:38
I used to have a Selmer bass back in the '80s and miss that sound, but definitely don't miss the keywork.
I had a look on Das Blashaus a little while back and definitely like the idea of an aftermarket crook with a less steep angle to it.
Also impressed with the old Conn saxes they've fitted modern keywork to - I'd love the sound of an old Conn X-bar bari sax married with the ease of modern Yamaha YBS-62 keywork (from low A to high F#). This is the nearest they do, but I would like the RH forked Eb reinstated: http://www.blashaus.ch/vintage-saxophone/conn-black-pearl-2-bariton/
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Kenton153
Date: 2015-03-06 08:10
I agree with clarnibass. I need to get my privilege ovrhauled simply because the keyfit is far from stellar..
I wonder if anyone has experimented with resonators on the pads of a bufft bass clarinet. I know they do not come with them, and i wonder the effect they would have on the lower tones.
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Author: HANGARDUDE
Date: 2015-03-07 19:18
Chris, the Blashaus neck also give a fatter sound, so you can give it a try. It is often used by jazz players to make that fat jazz sound. (not for me though!)
And I'm not too sure what genre you play, but I haven't seen anyone utilizing the Tosca for jazz or anything of that sort.
Josh
Post Edited (2015-03-07 20:43)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-03-07 21:27
I play bass clarinet mostly in theatre pit bands and also in orchestral settings, so I go for the broad, focussed reedy sound instead of the more throaty, spread, slack-jaw Jazz sound. If and when the Blashaus crooks become available in the UK through Howarth (fingers crossed), then I'd definitely give them a try out.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: DNBoone
Date: 2015-03-08 01:34
I got my hands on a Tosca Bass today for the first time and thought I'd share my two cents. The horn plays fantastic although I personally still prefer the sound of the selmer. The biggest problem is that the spacers between the keys is some black rubbery stuff and it gives slightly which mean that the 10 minutes I played it it began to fall out of adjustment. So it basically needs all new spacers as it was becoming unplayable rather fast.
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Author: Kenton153
Date: 2015-03-09 09:55
yup. Certainly a great horn, but i really couldn't sound the way i personally wanted to sound. perhaps that may not be the case if i had more time with it.. who knows.
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Author: Kenton153
Date: 2015-06-05 09:58
i have edited my review. I apologize for how sloppy the original version was.
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Author: ClaireAnnette
Date: 2015-06-05 11:25
So, if one wash
going to get a brand new bass clarinet, what is recommended?
And when people speak of a "German bass" to what are they referring?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-06-05 15:35
It would definitely be a Selmer Privilege if I was to choose a new low C bass.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: ClaireAnnette
Date: 2015-06-06 23:12
This is what I am hearing from most, except for those connected with Buffet of course.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-06-06 23:39
I have a Buffet Prestige from 2000 and had a quick play on a Tosca bass recently - I much prefer the Prestige bass over the Tosca and the Selmer Privilege bass above both the Prestige and the Tosca. The Selmer bass is by far the heaviest bass in terms of physical weight.
I also wanted to try the Uebel Emperior bass to see how it compared, but they didn't have one in stock.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: ClaireAnnette
Date: 2015-06-07 22:38
Yes, I was curious about that one. Most have been steering me towards the Selmer saying the key differences are not worth the difference in sound. And It "seems" most of those in top level orchestras are on Selmer. Most are telling me to find a good Selmer and have that tweaked for best result available right now.
That comment about the keys on Tosca going out of alignment with the new sound reduction efforts is a concern too. They are tricky enough to keep adjusted without that! And in some places it is difficult to find repair that can work on a bass. But, some of those that do have said they have to do quite a bit to get a new Tosca to stuff.
On other hand, I have seen a lot of the Prestige people "trading" to Tosca. But it appeared to me that could be because they play Bb/A Toscas and prefer that.
I need one that does the work required of it.
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Author: ClaireAnnette
Date: 2015-06-07 22:44
Forgot to ask: those that use Selmer: what mouthpiece do people like and why?
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Author: Kenton153
Date: 2015-06-18 11:03
I notice a vast majority of players on buffet prestige in my experience.
on my selmer i play a Fobes HB tweaked by Brad Behn.
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Author: thomas.b
Date: 2015-06-18 16:54
"And when people speak of a "German bass" to what are they referring?"
They have German keywork, smaller bore, smaller mp, . Soundwise they Tend to have a smaller Sound, more like a large bassett Horn. When I tested German Bass clarinets against Buffet Prestige my wife Stated that the German Sounds much more like a clarinet and recommended to Buy a Wurlitzer ( Or comparable). When she saw the Price Tag, she recommended the Buffet. Therefore I Play Buffet Prestige.... ;-)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-06-18 17:39
Although you can still save a bit more money if you buy an Uebel Emperior bass as they come in under all the other pro models and have exactly the same keywork (and most likely the same bore and tonehole layout) as the Buffet Prestige.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Dibbs
Date: 2015-06-18 19:28
Wow, I just googled "Uebel Bass Clarinet" and found this bizzare thing.
http://www.clarinetsdirect.biz/UebelBass.html
Chris P wrote:
> Although you can still save a bit more money if you buy an
> Uebel Emperior bass as they come in under all the other pro
> models and have exactly the same keywork (and most likely the
> same bore and tonehole layout) as the Buffet Prestige.
>
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