 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: derf5585
Date: 2015-05-15 02:30
Can a conductor tell if you are playing an A or Bb clarinet?
fsbsde@yahoo.com
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-05-15 02:34
What conductor?
More to the point, in my experience: Does a conductor care if you are playing an A or Bb clarinet?
Karl
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2015-05-15 02:43
It depends. Are you playing in the correct key for whatever one you picked up? If not, is it a solo? Did you play first? If no yes yes, the NEXT player may get the blame.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-05-15 04:01
If certain things written for one pitch of clarinet are much easier on another, then go for the easy option and use the one that you're more comfortable playing on in these instances - the conductor isn't likely to bat an eyelid so long as they can hear what they expect to hear in that given instance.
So I personally don't believe they can tell one from the other. Some people may say an A clarinet has a completely different sound to a Bb, but that's a load of crap as the difference in tone is very small between them.
If it was the case that A clarinets sounded totally different to their Bb counterparts (eg. if they sounded like a soprano sax), then they just wouldn't use A clarinets at all.
Incidentally, there are some people that can make a clarinet sound like a badly played soprano sax, but they will sound the same on both Bb and A clarinets.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2015-05-15 04:30
At least twice, when the clarinet player failed to pick up the proper A or Bb clarinet, as the oboe player, I've been accosted by the conductor for playing the wrong note or playing "out of tune".
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-05-15 04:54
I assumed we were talking about transposing onto the "wrong" clarinet. If the question had to do with just picking up the wrong clarinet and playing the part as written, of course, everyone knows - even the conductor. The clarinet notes will be a half-step off.
Karl
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Author: MSK
Date: 2015-05-15 05:32
If my conductor (a violinist) notices he doesn't care enough to comment so long as the part is played in the correct key and mistakes aren't made. I've occasionally picked the Bb rather than A part to avoid carrying the second instrument - particularly if it isn't a major piece in the concert. My fellow clarinetist does so pretty often & no-one seems to notice or at least care.
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Author: BflatNH
Date: 2015-05-15 14:27
I suggest not mixing A and Bb in a section if it can be avoided, even more so for mixing C and Bb. I can hear a tonal difference, and the differences in note sound or slight differences in pitch can, in some cases or notes, be heard. If the 1st transposes, the 2nd should as well.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-05-15 22:57
I recently played Haydn's Creation and used my C clarinet while the 1st player used Bb throughout (as she could sight transpose being a regular player), but she had a fairly bright tone compared to me even when I was playing my C clarinet and we both had identical solo sequences following one another so you could hear the difference in both our sounds. If our sounds didn't match, then that's just down to us as players and not to the clarinets we use.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: derf5585
Date: 2015-05-15 23:07
I suggest not mixing A and Bb in a section if it can be avoided.
Should different models of clarinets be mixed in the same section?
fsbsde@yahoo.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-05-15 23:24
Should different players be used in the same section?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-05-16 00:49
derf5585 wrote:
> I suggest not mixing A and Bb in a section if it can be
> avoided.
>
> Should different models of clarinets be mixed in the same
> section?
>
Ironically, in some major orchestras some section principals insist that their section members use the same instruments, or at least give them a hard time about it.
Karl
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Author: BflatNH
Date: 2015-05-16 00:52
Perhaps it's like wine. If you (or someone who's opinion you value) can tell the difference and if it is important, then you need to take the steps.
(I assume that a section would necessarily have different players. What am I missing?)
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2015-05-16 01:36
Anybody insist on a group of players also using same barrels, mouthpieces, and reeds? Those things all affect the sound, and that still isn't everything.
Let's assume a section principal was trying to pull this. In fairness, no one should be allowed to keep what they have. So the uniform new choices have to be items no one is currently using*. I'd love to sit in on the first few sessions. But I also think that in short order, all would be OK, to the amazement of every one of the players.
*What in the world could they be? Help me out here... has to be currently available stuff so all can get them.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: JHowell
Date: 2015-05-16 01:38
Here's a story a former student of Jerry Stowell told me, maybe just a story, maybe not: Stowell was playing principal on Brahms 1 under Reiner in the Chicago Symphony. In rehearsal, after Stowell played the Andante on B flat as is usually done, Reiner stopped and said, "Mr. Stowell, I notice that you played the solo on the B flat clarinet, as is often done. I think that Brahms specified the A clarinet for this movement because he wanted the specific timbre of that instrument. Would you please play the instrument that Brahms intended?"
Stowell replied, "Of course, Maestro," and removed his mouthpiece and set the B flat on the stand next to the A, made some small adjustment to his ligature, replaced the mouthpiece on the B flat, and picked it up ready to play. The movement was repeated, and at the end, Reiner said, "There, Mr. Stowell, I think you'll agree, that is much better.
I sure wouldn't have had the brass to pull that trick, especially on Reiner, but there you go, that's the story.
Edit: Spoke recently with the player who told me the story originally, and he corrected me. The conductor was not Reiner, but Szell guest conducting. My source agreed that nobody would have messed around with Reiner like that, but I'm still not making any claims for the story, it's a story.
Post Edited (2015-05-20 16:07)
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Author: Paula S
Date: 2015-05-16 02:50
Isn't there scoring for both A and Bb in the same piece in Capriccio Espagnol?
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-05-16 07:48
Be a little cautious about taking that story too literally as to the specific details. I've heard it told about a number of other clarinetists and conductors, some well-known and some not.
Maybe not Stowell or Reiner or Chicago or even Brahms 1st, but I'm sure it happened to some clarinetist at one time or another. Maybe more than one.
Karl
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Author: Jarmo Hyvakko
Date: 2015-05-16 11:16
I have never been blamed about playing with a wrong clarinet and i have been using wrong instruments cold-heartedly for 30 years in professional orchestras. I could believe the story if it was about the Brahms' 3rd symphony. The first mvt solos are very clumsy to play with Bb, and i was even taught at school that they should be played with Bb (because you don't have time to change). And that might be noticed even by a conductor! Luckily i finally figured out, that the easiest way is to transpose the whole beginning of the mvt with Acl in Bb!
Oh dear, last week we played Copland's appalachian spring and Stravinsky's chant du rossignol in the concert. Both have simply idiotic instrument changes. I don't remember having played that much with a wrong clarinet in the same concert!
By the way, some professors even suggest you to play the slow movement solo in Brahms' 3rd transposing with A-clarinet. Try it, it's interesting how it completely changes the character of the solo!
Jarmo Hyvakko
Jarmo Hyvakko, Principal Clarinet, Tampere Philharmonic, Finland
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Author: Ed
Date: 2015-05-16 15:35
I once was playing Eb and a conductor accused me of playing on Bb. So much for sensitive ears.
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Author: Wisco99
Date: 2015-05-16 22:42
As long as the conductor keeps flapping his arms you can use any clarinet you wish.
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2015-05-17 04:33
Does anyone ever switch horns mid-piece? Key changes do happen, often a half step. This is one of the reasons I don't think an A clarinet would be that much help for me in my pop and gospel settings, no sooner than I got comfortable I'd need to switch, and too quickly.
When I get to choose keys and changes for my own solos, whole step changes are easier than half (say concert Eb to concert F). Half step from concert G to concert Ab is tolerable, as is concert D to concert Eb. Other than that one or the other is going to be ugly.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2015-05-17 05:33)
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2015-05-17 04:42
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=339824&t=339824
Here's a thread of mine from a few years back about session players having to play anything in any key. Do any of you do session work on clarinet? If so, do you get the luxury of using an A clarinet when that's easier? Or is that frowned on, or snickered at? I doubt Boots Randolph had an "A" tenor sax handy in the Elvis session in question, did he? Does such even exist?
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2015-05-17 07:32)
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Author: MSK
Date: 2015-05-17 05:10
Do professionals ever switch the entire clarinet rather than moving the mouthpiece over during rapid switches? As an amateur orchestra player, I've done it occasionally when the switch was going to be too hurried. It has worked out fine so long as I use a synthetic reed and plan my tuning for a cold clarinet. I play pretty often in church and have to deal with a cold clarinet that has been sitting for twenty or thirty minutes and it seems to be essentially the same set of issues.
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Author: JHowell
Date: 2015-05-17 06:49
When that has happened I've switched earlier or later than indicated to get to a longer rest and transposed accordingly.
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