 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2015-05-14 19:19
I realize this is a dumb question. (even if there are no dumb questions.) My principal instrument before dystonia was horn, and horn players transpose on a regular basis, reading a plethora of transpositions, all on the same horn. The history of course involved changing crooks and reading using the position of the pitch in the harmonic sequence, but with the advent of valves the application changed.
So: why can't I just get a C clarinet and do the same thing I do with my horn, which is transpose for Bb and A parts? Is there some sound difference that really matters? Especially at an amateur level?
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2015-05-14 20:03
There IS a sound difference (play them, you'll hear it).
But it is relatively common for transposition to happen when a player doesn't have time to switch horns between measures or pieces. There have even been people who have gotten a Bb clarinet with a low Eb key and used it to play everything since now it goes down to the range of an A clarinet (they would never switch, just transpose on the Bb).
At an amateur level, play what you want. But yes, there IS a sound difference.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2015-05-14 20:28
Of course you can transpose whatever you wish however there are some points:
1. As noted above there is quite a significant sound difference
2. The C clarinet misses out the lowest 2 semitones of the Bb clarinert (3 for A) and these notes are used continually in all repertoire.
3. The technical difficulties of playing the clarinet become significantly more pronounced as you approach the extreme keys and the clarinet is generally expected to play a lot more notes at a fast tempo than the average horn part.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-05-14 21:56
Up until the 1980s or so, many orchestra players transposed much of what was written for Clarinet in A and all of the C clarinet parts onto a Bb clarinet. Good, in tune C clarinets for some reason are harder to find than Bb clarinets and, 50 years ago, A clarinets strongly tended to be stuffy compared to Bb instruments. Adding those disadvantages of C and A clarinets to the problem of playing on cold instruments each time a change was made gave a lot of players reason not to change unless it was unavoidable (low E in an A clarinet part) or clearly an advantage (awkward register changes or fingerings).
Through the late 20th century more players started using C clarinets when called for in the parts. And I've always suspected that the interest in authentic performance of older music on period instruments also led to an attitude among modern orchestral players that favored using the instrument the composer specified (C, A, and D, even bass clarinets in A) more than had been the case earlier.
One major difference between a horn and a clarinet, of course, is that you only use three valves on a single horn - even on a double horn you still only use the fingers on one hand. So awkward fingerings aren't as much of an issue.
If you do transpose everything, you're better off using a Bb clarinet than a C. I don't think you'd get any flack from conductors or other players in an amateur setting. Most of the time professional conductors don't notice or care - clarinetists tend to worry far more about the sound differences - most everyone else in the orchestra only hears a clarinet.
Ironically, at the same time this shift toward "correct" instruments was going on in the clarinet world, orchestral trumpet players more and more began to play everything on C trumpets. No one else seemed to mind. Go figure.
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-05-14 22:52
C clarinets don't have a particularly resonant sound. They sound more like a low Eb clarinet or a high alto clarinet (not great).
Old school Italian clarinet players pretty much did everything on full Boehm Bb clarinets and transposed A and C parts.
I don't find much difference in the sound between A and Bb clarinet. I doubt anyone (and I mean ANYONE) would really know the difference in context.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: gwie
Date: 2015-05-14 23:12
Anyone else here try playing Copland's Hoedown from Rodeo on the A instead of the Bb? :P
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Author: GBK
Date: 2015-05-14 23:27
gwie wrote:
> Anyone else here try playing Copland's Hoedown from Rodeo on
> the A instead of the Bb? :P
That's a pretty standard switch, since Copland rarely wrote for the A clarinet, even when it would have been easier for the player.
Also, I play the clarinet solo at meas. 116 of An Outdoor Overture on the A clarinet (as I'm sure others do as well)
...GBK
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Author: davyd
Date: 2015-05-15 01:58
>Anyone else here try playing Copland's Hoedown from Rodeo on the A instead of the Bb? :P
Whenever it comes up. Perhaps someday I'll try it on the C instrument.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2015-05-15 05:14
The big cadenza in Tchaikovsky's Mozartiana is written for C clarinet, for which it lies quite well. On the Bb, it's nearly impossible. I've read that Ralph McLane used it as his warmup, just to keep it under his fingers. (It's much less difficult on the A).
When I was forced to play in (indoor) pep bands, I transposed them on the A.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Johan H Nilsson
Date: 2015-05-15 17:38
I am training on a piece in concert G major where I realized early I could only reach the required tempo with a C clarinet.
Generally, not only key matters, but also how the melody passes over register breaks and how high/low it goes.
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Author: marcia
Date: 2015-05-16 01:34
>Anyone else here try playing Copland's Hoedown from Rodeo on the A >instead of the Bb? :P
Most definitely. Did not even attempt it on Bb. Why do composers do that when there is such a better alternative??
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Author: JHowell
Date: 2015-05-16 07:48
Don't most modern players use double or even triple horns? Sort of analogous to the B flat/A clarinet set, right? I think early clarinet players had to have several instruments to cope with different keys, since the 2-key, 5-key and similar clarinet was just barely chromatic, not that different from natural horn players with all their crooks. Clarinet fingering with the twelfth and the throat register is more difficult than woodwind instruments that overblow an octave, but when we encounter a passage in B major we can slip the noose by changing clarinets, while an oboist or bassoonist in that situation is stuck.
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2015-05-20 20:57
Yes almost everyone uses a double horn, but sometimes as people age they will switch to a single Bb horn. Since we all read all those transpositions anyway, it matters little. Most triples are played by high horn players who need the security of the more reliable partials in the high range, but at some sacrifice of tone. The opposite is the European pumpenhorn in F that the Vienna Philharmonic uses. It has a very discernible difference in sound, really fine to the hornist's ears.
My reason for asking is that I read by pitch instead of by fingering. Like reading aloud words or letters....if you see the letter R on the page, you hear "R" in your head and then would say "R." I see the note F on the page, hear the pitch F in my head, and then play F on the instrument I happen to be holding. So a plethora of clefs are in my repertoire, and as long as I know the clef the mental gymnastics are the same. So for me to have to know two sets of half-step-off fingerings for an A and Bb clarinet, would be difficult to keep straight. It's nice to hear that a large number of people manage A parts on a Bb clarinet, which would be my choice given that I already am familiar with the clef to a certain extent. I read Bb clef for trumpet, brass band euphonium and tuba parts, some horn parts, and now clarinet. A parts I have only encountered in classical ear horn repertoire, but for me that would be a whole lot easier to read than trying to play a part with half-step-off fingering patterns on an A clarinet.
This will make sense only to people who suffer from pitch recognition (see a printed pitch, hear that pitch, then play it,) and not those who read by fingering.
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Author: Mirko996
Date: 2015-05-20 23:56
I think, for experience that e.g. alto clarinet and alto sax have the same tonality and could have the same timbrical sound in some notes but there's a giant difference with this instrument...
The same is for C clarinet and Horn...
C Clarinet Has Been Used in liscio orchestra like casadei and has very and very (sincerly because i played c clarinet time ago for sell it) sucks: Is clarinet that has some orribilant notes... is very very hard to intonate especialy it was like my clarinet...
Horn is totality different... In my opinion, when i listen trumpeth (that's example) has metallic sound and very very hot notes and brillant with high notes...
However, you could trasportate Horn with c clarinet ( i read now horn have f tonality) and isn't hard to trasportate...but you can fell the timbre difference...
A clarinet is like Human Voice like basset horn (but is more better use basset horn for example in mozart concert in a): are builded some basset horn in A and F Tonality and the sheet for basset horn in f could be played with Horn but is totality different play but isn't wrong, is prefered play with basset horn because is very beatiful listen a concert with basset horn:
Example Italian clarinet Alessandro Carbonara or a famous international clarinettist Julian Bliss... Invoce the soul and of instrument (is poetic but is the really, if you want and if you like classical music listen it)
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