 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Isa
Date: 2015-05-11 05:51
Bought a used clarinet for my daughter.
She tried it, was very happy, the price was really cheap for what it was supposed (supposed of course!) to be, buffet r13. Label was on the clarinet, saw it engraved too. Guy had repair bills for the tampons and an estimate on it.
At home, we looked more carefully and I noticed that the lower tube is in fact a Yamaha :S so pale, we did not even notice. Numbers showing seem to be 6211.
We are really beginners, yup!
Anyhow, just curious about this all: what could be the effect of having mixed parts? The did fit well, it sounds nice (now of course, it could be slighlty off and we might not even notice...)
How bad is it, basically!
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-05-11 05:58
My guess is that it will make tuning note to note; register to register very difficult. Of course there are some intentionally built horns that personally I think could be even worse than what you have......like the Buffet B12.
I'd have your daughter's teacher (or some equivalently trusted clarinet player) evaluate the situation before you throw in the towel. But I'd say you don't want to continue with that for much than a year or so at best.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2015-05-11 06:39
It's going to be more trouble than it's worth. I'd take it back and demand a refund. Buffet R13's don't have a model number stamped on them, just the Buffet logo. What you have is pretty well unsaleable except for parts.
Tony F.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2015-05-11 16:08
>It's going to be more trouble than it's worth. >
Unfortunately, I have to agree. As an amateur, I enjoy restoring old instruments, so I check out what's available at the flea markets and thrift shops. I frequently see and avoid buying "marriages" of parts from different brands of instruments, or from different instruments of the same brand but manufactured years apart. Schools getting rid of stuff and even some pro repair shops pair up their "parts horns" into plausible-looking assortments in whatever cases are available and dump them into these markets.
Beware. Most of those marriages look as if they need to get divorced. They're a special danger for beginners and for non-musician parents, because the worst of those cases may contain cannibalized sections with keys missing, missing keys replaced with keys that don't fit properly (from a different brand) or other major problems that only someone who already knows how to play the instrument will spot. I keep on recommending flea markets and yard sales on this bulleting board, but I need to remember to add the caveat that they're only good hunting grounds for experienced skeptics.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Isa
Date: 2015-05-12 02:11
Thank you all for your answers.
It seems it might not be as bad as I thought: the 2 tubes would be Yamaha and barrel and bell are buffet (and it's really engraved r13 b, if this means anything)
We used tuner app cleartune. However it seems we can never be exactly on the note, it's always a small line before it. I will get it to a shop to have it looked at, as my daughter won't have any other private class until next September (she gets her classes with school)
Overall it sounds better than her entry plastic Yamaha school lent us and she says keys are much smoother and easier to play.
Thanks again, and I'll read the board for tricks on how to correctly tune it!
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2015-05-12 02:34
There was a period of time when Buffet stamped the back of the barrels of their R13 Bb clarinets, in very small lettering, "R13 b" (without the quotes). A mismatched barrel or bell is not nearly as big a problem as mismatched joints. As long as the two joints match, you should be OK.
It sounds like your daughter is playing a little flat. If it fits, you might try the barrel from your daughter's original clarinet. It might just bring the pitch up a bit. At this point, I wouldn't worry too much about it, yet, though.
Look carefully at the upper joint ("tube") above the highest key. Can you see a logo? A bit below the Yamaha name, there should be a model identification, "35," "72," "CS," etc. (without the quotes). Can you make anything out?
If you only paid a couple of hundred dollars, you probably got at least reasonable value and possibly got something very nice. If you paid several hundred dollars, perhaps not -- it just depends on which model Yamaha you have.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Isa
Date: 2015-05-12 04:56
Jack, what I read looks like 6211 and I wasn't successful in googling it!
We tried the other barrel and it was the same. In fact, her other clarinet is as flat as the new one! She did well in a contest and won 2 scholarships (hence buying her own clarinet) so I guess it fits their standards!
I probably paid too much, even if it came with a bill for 250$ of work done (tampons, those brown parts -don't know the English word sorry!! - ) etc.
I'll have it checked, if the bill is valid and that all this work was really done, then I guess it wasn't a total rip off!
Thank you again everyone for your input, it's appreciated!
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2015-05-12 08:26
Are you saying the 6211 is on the front of the clarinet? If it was on the back, it could be a serial number. I don't know what it would mean on the front. If the clarinet simply had a "62" on the front, that would designate an entry-level professional clarinet made sometime during the late 70s or early 80s. Is there a chance you could post a picture of the logo, even if it's faint?
The English term for "tampons" (French) is "pads."
You probably know how to calibrate your tuner properly but, just to be sure about the tuning, is the reference pitch on your tuner set to A = 440?
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Isa
Date: 2015-05-12 14:56
I added the logo and also the screen shot of the tuner.
Could it be 62II with letters instead?
Thanks!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-05-12 19:22
If the main body joints are both Yamaha YCL-62II (which was Yamaha's equivalent of an R13 back in the '80s before they expanded their lineup), then there shouldn't be any real reason to worry as nowadays it's very common to chop and change barrels and bells at will, so it seems.
Can you post a photo of both upper and lower joints so we can determine they're both Yamaha and matching. As the lower joints don't carry the Yamaha logo, the keywork should be enough to go by to determine it's also Yamaha - Buffets have the Buffet logo stamped on all joints.
The YCL-62II has a bore size of 14.65mm and the standard barrel length supplied with them was 64.5mm, but you can use a longer or shorter barrel if need be.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Isa
Date: 2015-05-13 02:28
Attachment: image.jpg (1910k)
Attachment: image.jpg (1719k)
Hi Chris, posting pics of the joints, let me know if it's what you meant.
I do not see buffet on the second tube but I see a serial number 003113
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-05-13 03:27
Those are definitely both Yamaha 62II joints and that's a Yamaha serial number.
I do have a concern - have a close look at the following photo:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/download.html/1,4172/image.jpg
I can see what appears to be a hairline crack from the socket ring to the upper RH ring key pillar, so have that checked out just to be sure it's not going to reopen and most importantly check the socket ring isn't loose. It could be a line of grain but I think you should have it checked out just to be sure.
(I tried to attach this same photo but ringed the area with a red circle, but apparently the size of the photo is too large which is funny as two photos of the same size were successfully attached in the previous post!)
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2015-05-13 03:32)
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Author: Isa
Date: 2015-05-13 04:20
Attachment: image.jpg (1124k)
Attachment: image.jpg (882k)
Attachment: image.jpg (864k)
I see what you mean. I took other pictures, it's funny how it's clearer on pictures than with my own eyes (maybe I'm getting too old and should get glasses)
It appears to be one millimetre deep and it has a metal part in it.
I'm posting pics of ever you are curious.
I'll definitely get it to a repair shop to make sure.
Thanks again for everyone's comment. Greatly appreciated
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2015-05-13 08:45
"It appears to be one millimetre deep and it has a metal part in it. "
To expand on what Tyler said, that is a channel in the upper joint to hold a flat spring. It's supposed to be there.
The model designation in your picture appears to be 62II or possibly 620. I think it's more likely 62II, as Chris says. I've never seen a YCL-62II (or, for that matter, a 620) and I can't find it listed among Yamaha's discontinued clarinets on their U.S., Canada, U.K. or Australian sites But Yamaha has used the "II" designation before on other instruments. There was a model 62II saxophone and a "II" model student bass clarinet. Perhaps Yamaha simply chose not to distinguish it from the YCL-62 in the discontinued model list for the U.S.
Regardless, as Chris says, in Yamaha's product line, the 62(II) was designed to compete with a Buffet R13. Given the general quality of Yamaha's musical instruments, it should be a good instrument for your daughter. It's unfortunate that the barrel and bell don't match but, as Chris pointed out, many clarinetists use after-market barrels and bells. FWIW, I did a quick check on completed auctions on eBay and it looks like used original equipment Buffet barrels tend to sell for $50-$70. Surprisingly (to me, anyway) bells didn't sell as well. I saw a low of around $20 with highs in the $50-$70 range. If you wanted, you could sell the Buffet equipment and replace it with a barrel and bell designed for Yamaha clarinets from Morrie Backun for around $100, net. On the other hand, Backun doesn't distinguish between Yamahas and Buffets in his design, suggesting that barrels and bells for the two makers are similar.
In any case, if your daughter has been playing for at least a few years and is playing flat with the current barrel, you probably should consider measuring it and buying her one that is 1 or 2 mm shorter depending on how flat she is. (Your tuner is set correctly.)
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-05-13 09:42
See attached photo - I've put a red ring around the suspected socket crack.
Clearly this isn't going to work - how come I can't post a photo cropped down to 1500x1500 and still get "The following attachment is too large. Attachments must be smaller than 2000k" when the original one that was uploaded on here is much larger than that being 3624x2448?
Ok, I'll try to post a microscopic image next time - maybe an image 10x10 pixels won't be too large, so hopefully that will work.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2015-05-13 09:50)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-05-13 09:51
Let's see if this works. See attached and significantly reduced photo.
I DON'T BELIEVE THIS!
To save myself having a brain haemorrhage out of sheer rage, I'll just put a link to the original sized photo that somehow can be attached on here whereas the photo I'm posting which is less than a quarter the size can't.
Have a look at the socket on the lower joint on the left of the photo - there's a distinct line running from the socket ring to the upper pillar of the RH ring keys:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/download.html/1,4172/image.jpg
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2015-05-13 09:58)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2015-05-13 10:55
>> Clearly this isn't going to work - how come I can't post a photo cropped down to 1500x1500 and still get "The following attachment is too large. Attachments must be smaller than 2000k" when the original one that was uploaded on here is much larger than that being 3624x2448? <<
I'm not sure why you couldn't attach the photo, but 2000k refers to the file size while 3624x2448 refers to pixel dimensions. It's possible that a larger photo has a smaller file size, for example depending on how it was saved, etc.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-05-13 11:20
Attachment: yamaha 62ii.jpg (401k)
Attached photo, take four.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Isa
Date: 2015-05-13 15:56
Chris, I am afraid you are right....
Looking closely it's a crack I'm pretty sure: I looked inside the tube and there is a corresponding line...
Can cracks be repaired? It seemed like it when I googled it.
Daughter will not play it until it's looked at.
So many great advises here.
Once this is taken care of, we'll look at other parts and see what can be done.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-05-13 16:58
Socket cracks (and the majority of other cracks) can be successfully repaired, but make sure the socket ring isn't loose - if it moves or comes away fairly easily just by turning or pulling it with your fingers, then it will need to be fitted so it holds the socket in compression.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Isa
Date: 2015-05-13 17:13
Thanks Chris, It is not moving at all, so hopefully it will get properly fixed.
Poor daughter, she has an harmony contest Friday and will be sad she can't use it! Better be safe than sorry!
Thank you so much all, you are great assistance
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Author: gsurosey
Date: 2015-05-13 23:40
Is that a crack on the upper joint running from the side Eb key tone hole towards the lower tenon?
----------
Rachel
Clarinet Stash:
Bb/A: Buffet R13
Eb: Bundy
Bass: Royal Global Max
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Author: Isa
Date: 2015-05-14 00:01
I do not know the parts (sorry!!) it starts from the very end (under the ring) and stops to the pin or bolt (basically what we see on the pic Chris posted) . It doesn't reach any holes.
We are going to the repair shop tomorrow
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-05-14 00:35
Attachment: yamaha 62ii.jpg (267k)
See attached photo (should work this time, fingers crossed) - I've circled the line from the side Eb/Bb tonehole which to me just looks like a grain line rather than a crack as cracks don't tend to happen there. But again it's worth having investigated.
As you said the socket ring on the lower joint is tight, it could be that the crack in the socket may have already been glued. But still have someone check it to be clear if it has been repaired or not.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Isa
Date: 2015-05-14 05:49
Attachment: image.jpg (201k)
Chris, you've got the eye!
I took another pic from a different angle.
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Author: Isa
Date: 2015-05-14 21:26
Back from repair shop, what a story and such a relief!!!
This shop is the one where the school sends all their repairs.
It appears that they were the one who serviced the clarinet. The bill the seller give me is from another shop but they don't do repairs and send them to where I went.
So they had the serial number, the pads and adjustments were really made on what I bought.
The guy said nothing to be done to the crack, that the ring holds it and that he doubts there would be any leakage.... He said nothing to worry about...
Oh well, in the end it wasn't a rip off, she has a decent instrument to start with and I learned tons of things
Again thank you everyone!
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