 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2015-05-10 18:59
Clarinet Gurus:
As I'm switching over to summer playing, I'm laying down the overpriced prestige Buffet and picking my equally great Ridenour Libertas. (Even though my Buffet, picked by Phil Muncy, is a better instrument than I'll ever be as a player, my first thought about the Libertas is "why I don't play this 24/7/365"?...But this is not my question.)
I've had some great success with Legere's Signature reeds. I still prefer Morre 4, but the Legere Signature 3.75 is like a good friend, sitting with my other reeds, that can jump in and take care of me when all others fail. It's reassuring and comforting. During summer playing (outdoors), I rely on my Libertas, Legere combo exclusively. I also use a Fobes Europa 3. My Vandoern Optimum ligature doesn't seem to have enough 'bite' to consistently hold my Legere reed down, even if I use a Vulcan death grip to secure it.
What ligatures have you fine folks found to be successful with holding the 'skinner/thinner' Legere? I used a friend's Silverstein last year with success. But before I drop some big bucks to satisfy my clarinet fix, I'm interested in other options. I've found, even through heated debates, if something works for the majority, it'll certainly work for me.
~Robt L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage
Lig: Ishimori, Behn Delrin
Reed: Legere French Cut 3.75/4, Behn Brio 4
Horns: Uebel Superior (Bb,A), Ridenour Lyrique, Buffet R13 (Eb)
Post Edited (2015-05-10 19:05)
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2015-05-10 19:43
Those slippery legere reeds are best held on by leather ligatures if you intend on switching the mouthpiece around. Pretty much any leather rovner. I prefer mkIII or versa x.
I like other ligatures as primaries, but then again I don't ever have to switch a mouthpiece from one to another.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-05-10 19:49
What I found during my foray into plastic reeds is that the ligature is loosing proposition. By that I mean you have a conical shaped mass on which you secure a thin bit with another conical shaped sheath of material. The ONLY thing that makes this work is the friction of a cane reed against the mouthpiece and the friction of the metal sheath against the reed. Once you make the 'thin bit' a slippery piece of plastic, there is NO friction.
I solved this problem by scoring the inside surface of my metal ligatures with really fine wet/dry (the black stuff) sandpaper. I use 320 grit but I suppose 400 works ok too. Just sand side to side (or have some sandpaper around your finger and spin the ligature around that). It doesn't take much at all, you just need to leave a few fine lateral tracks and you're good. The scored ligature will now grip around the surface of the mouthpiece AND hold well enough to the plastic reed (the only one that didn't improve for me too much where the BG Revelations, and I even went as far as making deep groves with a knife into the metal insert).
The reason the Silverstein works without modification is that the tiny saw-horse gizm at the top that actually touches the mouthpiece has tiny rubber bumpers on it. Of course when the bumpers fall off (and they eventually will) you can just apply the above idea to the bare metal (or glue something else to those feet).
Or, you can stick with cane.
............Paul Aviles
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2015-05-10 22:09
At least try the Bonade. Make sure to bend the area just outside of the rails so that the metal doesn't touch the reed edges.
An easy solution is to glue a tiny strip of, say, 320 grit sandpaper to the top of the reed or the inside of the ligature. Try a couple of thicknesses of paper first to find how it works.
String is free. I use it for all my performances. Mine is a genuine German Blattschnur, but a round shoelace is just as good.
Ken Shaw
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2015-05-10 22:17
My favorite ligature for use with a Legere is a Bonade traditional, gold-plated, and lined with cork. I purchased it from Hammer Music Company in Bensalem, PA. This has proven effective with the slippage issue. I was using Rovner style ligatures with Legere until I found this option.
Christopher Nichols, D.M.A.
Assistant Professor of Clarinet
University of Delaware
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2015-05-10 23:15
It sure helps to read the site....now I know why when I tighten my ligature my reed wants to slip sideways. I have been having to align it the "wrong" way in order to have it straight when I tighten the ligature. Sandpaper coming up, because I am not, at my level, going to mess with cane reeds.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2015-05-10 23:17
Ken said:
Quote:
Blattschnur
Gesundheit!
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2015-05-11 16:34
The Rovner Van Gogh is HUGE. It covers the entire bark area of the reed. The reviews have been mediocre, complaining that it damps the reed vibration.
I prefer the lightest possible ligature -- string, a $5 Martin or a Bonade.
Ken Shaw
Post Edited (2015-05-11 16:35)
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Author: TomS
Date: 2015-05-11 17:57
Don't forget about the Luyben ... it is designed for thinner blank reeds like the Signature. Follow the instructions ... apply the reed and tighten the ligature very tightly and leave on for 2-3 days. This stretches it to fit perfectly with the geometric consistency of the Legere. Works great, IMHO.
Stays on, too.
I find the Signature reeds fussy and sometimes weird ... so I use Legere Classic 3.25 (sanded 0.7 mm narrower) with the Luyben and an M13.
Nice, bigger sound and projection.
Tom
Post Edited (2015-05-11 18:01)
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2015-05-11 21:14
I'm finding this to be a very interesting thread.
First, the inconsistencies: Ken Shaw stated "At least try the Bonade. Make sure to bend the area just outside of the rails so that the metal doesn't touch the reed edges. Then we have David Blumberg stating: "Only ***ONLY*** the edges of the reed are touched." These two statements appear to be completely opposite to me. (Perhaps this particular subject should be left for another thread.)
Now, we come to the heart of the problem and that is, IMO, "friction". I emailed Clark W Fobes and Brad Behn because they both sell the Ishimori metal ligature which has two screws.
Clark said "It should" and then to paraphrase the remainder of what he wrote, he would prefer you use cane over plastic. Here's his web page on the Ishimori ligatures: http://www.clarkwfobes.com/ligatures.html
Now, the response from Brad Behn, I found to be very enlightening. Brad went to great lengths to describe how the Zinner mouthpiece is "more" conical than the average conical clarinet mouthpiece and because of this characteristic, ligatures that are not properly designed will indeed slip and he stated that he found this quite frequently with the "modern" Bonade ligature. Here's Brad's Ishimori ligature web page: http://www.clarinetmouthpiece.com/ligatures/
Now, because I honestly didn't know what the Vandoren Optimum ligature looked like, I Googled it and, of course, found it to have only one screw. So, IMO, it appears we have a rather severe mismatch, i.e., a very conical mouthpiece with a slippery plastic reed trying to be held securely with a metal ligature that happens to have only one screw.
Now, according to Brad, different metal materials have a varying "stickiness" factor with "Solid Silver" and "Satin Gold Plated Copper" being more "sticky" in the Ishimori line. (Perhaps this is why Clark Fobes simply stated "It shoud".)
So, to me, there is a reason why Clark chose the Ishimori for his Zinner mouthpiece line which includes the Europa 3, however, he doesn't offer any explanation on his ligature web page. Brad, on the other hand, gives a very detailed and informative explanation of why he chose the Ishimori metal ligature for his line of mouthpieces which also includes a Zinner model.
Hopefully, the Ishimori ligature is an option that you might consider.
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2015-05-12 01:19
I've used a Rovner Mark III for several years, and can't recall any slippage playing Legere Signature reeds.
I don't tighten very tight either.
CarlT
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2015-05-12 01:44
Yes, David, your comment, indeed, was about the Van Gough. Sorry for the confusion. What I was trying to reference to was the fact that the Van Gough "only touches the outer edges" of the reed while the Bonade "does not" touch the outer edges of the reed. That's what perplexed me. It appears that good results can be obtained with either approach.
I've sent another email to Brad to find out if the Ishimori "only touches the outer edges" of the reed like the Van Gough or whether it stays away from them like the Bonade.
p.s. I'm beginning to wonder if the O.P. should have worded his question as "Who is successfully securing a Legere reed to a Zinner mouthpiece?"
The reason I add this is because I wonder how many positive responses are from players using non Zinner mouthpieces which, it appears, would be easier to obtain a secure holding of the Legere due to the less conical shape of their mouthpieces.
Just a thought.
Post Edited (2015-05-12 02:17)
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2015-05-12 02:51
"Who is successfully securing a Legere reed to a Zinner mouthpiece?"
I'm intrigued by the Ishimori. But now begins the $10K question. What metal combo? Thoughts/suggestions? The combos seem endless.
I emailed Clark Fobes (since he's heard me play briefly) and asked for his thoughts of the various metal used in the Ishimori. A chart of the brand's metal combo can only tell me so much.
I play with the mythical 'dark' albeit American sound that's vibrant with ringing overtones that offers a free-blowing resistance to provide excellent articulations in any register that will carry in any performance situation. Blah, blah, blah...you've heard it all before.
You folks have provided some great info...I appreciate the feedback.
~Robt L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage
Lig: Ishimori, Behn Delrin
Reed: Legere French Cut 3.75/4, Behn Brio 4
Horns: Uebel Superior (Bb,A), Ridenour Lyrique, Buffet R13 (Eb)
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2015-05-12 06:12
Just heard back from Brad Behn. He stated that the Ishimori ligature "does not" touch the edges of the reed. He described it as being a "really well built, Bonade Inverted".
A lot of good remarks have been written about the Bonade Traditional and Inverted. The main problem cited numerous times, if I remember correctly, is that tightening too hard would cause the sides to pull down and touch the edges of the reed causing the reed to vibrate differently and producing undesired results. It appears that the robust design of the Ishimori has eliminated that problem.
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Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2015-05-12 18:20
In another thread, I had mentioned my experience with the Vandoren Optima ligature. I tried them, and actually thought they were quite wonderful. I ordered up ligatures for all the horns, as I was using multiple clarinets in a pit orchestra at the time. I had my B-flat, E-flat and C all lined up, all with Fobes mouthpieces, all with Optima ligatures, and Vandoren wood on them. Suddenly, right before curtain one night, I witnessed a weird situation - on the Eeffer, I watched the ligature start to move upward on its own! It then popped off the horn like this morning's toast from the toaster! I caught it mid-air! Weird! Put it back, just to have it happen during the gig! I reached into my spares bag, and slapped back on my Rovner Dark. Problem solved! I now have 3 Optima ligatures for sale, 2 B-flats and an E-flat. Hardly used, one flight tested!
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-05-12 19:10
Hey Ken,
I'd try the scoring of the inside before giving up on them (you play Legere?). They are pretty decent ligatures. But for my money, NOTHING even touches the M/O - in terms of value for the dollar OR against anything else for that matter (available now specifically in two versions, one for Masters mouthpieces AND one for everything else).
I score the inside surface of the M/Os as well.
...........Paul Aviles
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