 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Exiawolf
Date: 2015-04-15 10:18
Greetings!
I am possibly looking to try something away from the vandoren range but I don't know where to start. Having played both the M30 and M13 Lyre, I am looking for a mouthpiece that has the same chocolatey sound as the M30, but is a little more refined. Thanks in advance!
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Author: tylerleecutts
Date: 2015-04-15 10:26
M15? Unless you've got a ton of time and money to spend I would either change reeds with the M30 (try a Rue Lepic on it), or try the M30 Lyre and M15.
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-04-15 16:10
I second Tyler's answer and logic particularly as it regards the M15. Why is Vandoren or the M30/M13 product line unsuitable enough to you to motivate you to look elsewhere?
That's not a rhetorical question. Some people have very legitimate reasons. Others look for equipment changes as quick fixes to what they see as inadequate gains from practice time.
Post Edited (2015-04-15 16:26)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2015-04-15 16:53
To take off on another recent thread, what exactly does chocolatey mean in a clarinet tone?
If you're looking for something with a response similar to the M13L or M15, there are lots of custom makers' products to try. Walter Grabner advertises the tone of his CXZ_Gxx mouthpieces as "reminiscent of the taste and texture of rich, dark chocolate, or the smell of fresh roasted coffee brewing on a cold winter’s morning." All carping about the verbiage aside, they are excellent, colorful-sounding and responsive mouthpieces. Greg Smith, Richard Hawkins and several others AFAIK use the same Zinner blank and add their own touches and facing styles to produce mouthpieces that are comfortable to play and don't have the pitch issues some of us have with Vandorens. Other mouthpiece makers like Clark Fobes and Chris Hill, to name two whose mouthpieces I like very much, use proprietary blanks to achieve excellent results. I've never used a mouthpiece by Brad Behn, but they have a great reputation for workmanship and great playing qualities, although pricier than the others. All produce good sounding, responsive mouthpieces.
In my opinion (others' mileage may vary) any of these will give you a different feel and depth of sound from a Vandoren. But they are also more expensive than Vandoren because of the handwork and resulting time involved in producing them. On the other hand there are very successful players using Vandoren mouthpieces (though they may have had them tweaked). In the end there's no escaping a process of trial and error to choose among even a subset of the mouthpieces that are available. Your best bet at this stage might be to ask your teacher for advice and use that as a starting point.
Most of us are probably either still playing on the mouthpiece we bought as advanced students (probably on our teachers' advice) or we're playing on the umpteenth in a long succession of favorites that we've discovered as we've grown, our tastes and needs have changed, or we've just given in to the wanderlust to try new things.
Karl
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Author: TomS
Date: 2015-04-15 17:34
I know there are some amazing hand-produced MPs out there ... but, I figure that Vandoren has more time, money and resources to develop great MPs than the average Joe, making his own pretty darn good to excellent products in his workshop. Vandoren spends years and many thousands of dollars to bring just one model to market. And, I don't think there are any secrets to how and why MPs work ... Vandoren should be cognizant of all these factors ... I hope.
One of the biggest value of hand made MPs, made by a great master, like Ridenour, Smith and Behn, to name a few, is that if you so choose, you can get a zillion variations, built exactly to your specifications and taste. I have a bunch of Vandoren MPs, and some that I've had slightly tweaked, and I think, work better for me. In addition, the internal acoustics are more expertly finished, and by someone that actually PLAYS the clarinet and can QC their own work on the spot.
Fortunately, I found that the stock M13 (not lyre) works great for me with Legere reeds (but not the Signature ... another discussion). I use the 5RV-lyre and M30-lyre for some venues.
Good thing about MPs like the Vandoren and the Reserve MPs is the consistency ... which means if you need a spare or break one, it's not too hard to find another that plays alike.
I'd experiment with different cuts and brands of reeds first, before changing MPs. If your are not adjusting your reeds with a high level of skill, and trying to play them right out of the box, you are starting off wrong ... Get the Ridenour ATG system (cheap) and be sure you are getting the most out of your reeds. I have to adjust almost all of my cane reeds to get them to play ... but I use Legere mostly, because I like the sound.
My four cents worth ...
Tom
Post Edited (2015-04-15 17:44)
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-04-15 17:49
(With tongue in cheek)
Karl wrote:
"To take off on another recent thread, what exactly does chocolatey mean in a clarinet tone?"
Perhaps an analogy will help Karl. ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
A man was asked once what hooligans are. He responded that they're the sort of people likely to effect shaningans.
When asked then what shaningans are, he indicated that they are the kinds of things that hooligans do.
===
Oh...and chocolatey..here's the best I have:
https://youtu.be/yA5y1u900yQ?t=5m30s
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Author: Exiawolf
Date: 2015-04-15 18:39
Well here are a few of my issues. The M13 Lyre just doesn't feel completely natural for me to play on. The upper clarion (G-C) has a strange voicing with this mouthpiece that I just can't fully grasp. On top of that, I have to work a bit harder to project (which is not always a bad thing) however I don't have to do that on other mp's. On the M30, the upper clarion is fixed, and I find it works better for my voicing, however it seems to be particularly picky with reeds. I have a hard time finding reeds that consistently work well for it.
I was thinking if you don't agree with custom mouthpieces, maybe I should try a Reserve MP, M30D, or M15 as recommended.
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-04-15 19:46
Despite our inability to nail down that which chocolately clearly is, with that said, (I know this seems paradoxical), IMHO, the M30D is as chocolately as it gets.
Do not be alarmed by any space it may create with the (an "American") barrel, as this doesn't affect pitch
It could turn (it really couldn't--the player makes the sound) Gervase DePeyer's sound https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SEatuC1vt0
into Jon Manasse's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9nTKA3meRc.
(Jon actually uses an M30D last I heard. Desclaimer: I'm partial to Jon's sound..YMMV.)
I'd think you'll have to drop reed strengths coming from an M13 Lyre though.
The M15 might be the best compromise if you can pick only one. Maybe you can buy the mouthpieces on trial from one of the big 3 (Weiner, WWMB, Muncy)?
Or...maybe this isn't, or shouldn't be, a gear solvable problem. Or maybe it could be, but your money is better saved or spent elsewhere??
Are you studying with anyone, and do they have thoughts here?
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Author: TomS
Date: 2015-04-15 20:16
Yeah ... that's what I mean ... some of these boutique MP makers have perfect ears and the uncanny ability to translate a player's satisfaction to dimensional and material specifications.
I'd love to have the time and money to work with Bradford Behn and get exactly what I want/need. My playing is not up to his standards ... I'd wear a grocery sack over my head and a false identity to soften my embarrassment when he basked in my sonic assault.
So ... I guess if the ultimate is your goal, go for the custom MP. It may be worth the $300-800.
Tom
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2015-04-15 21:04
I always found my m30 gave me more of a white chocolate and mint sound. Pair it with a legere reed and its like adding whole milk instead of skim...
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Author: tylerleecutts
Date: 2015-04-16 01:16
For the M30, a 3.5 V12 works especially well, especially if you use a reed finishing method like ATG. But then again, this may not be solveable with equipment. Find one setup that works, and play it until something breaks.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2015-04-16 05:07
Just buy an m30 and send it to a mouthpiece refacer to have it tweaked. Custom mouthpiece with the sound you like, at less than a custom mouthpiece price.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
Post Edited (2015-04-16 05:07)
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Author: TomS
Date: 2015-04-16 22:05
David McClune does great reface work and at a great price.
You also might try on of his mouthpieces ... popular here in central Arkansas area. One of the clarinetists here in the Arkansas Symphony plays a McClune MP, and with a big, warm sound. Beautiful!
The Little Rock Wind Symphony has at least two members that play McClunes stuff as well ... we also have a lot a couple of Pynes, a Blayman and several Vandorens. (I asked)
BTW, the principal in the Arkansas Symphony plays a Pyne and an R13.
Ridenour's MP have that warm, covered, cushioned sound ... and well priced. Get one to try ...
The possibilities are endless ... too many great choices. Makes you crazy!
Good luck.
Tom
Post Edited (2015-04-16 22:08)
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Author: Dileep Gangolli
Date: 2015-04-16 22:40
I like the CADBURY mouthpiece over the HERSHEY mouthpiece when trying to achieve the choclatey sound you are going for.
The NESTLE line never did much for me....
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2015-04-17 06:10
For refacing and touching up mouthpieces, I have only ever used Richard Hawkins, but then again, I've only ever used him cause he was my first choice, did excellent work, and I never needed to try others for refacing.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Exiawolf
Date: 2015-04-17 09:40
Haha, guess I should have clarified. The chocolate comments are funny and too ironically true, words I have used are so generic and near pointless when trying to describe clarinet tone. To me, a dark and "chocolatey" sound is one that lacks higher overtones and is very covered, yet still round and full in sound. Some people like having the higher overtones in their sound to add color, but It's not what I'm aiming for
On that note, I think I'll try a M30D paired with V12 3 1/2's and see what happens. Does anyone know if the M/O Ligature will work with the M30D?
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