 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: CSmith2007
Date: 2015-03-27 19:38
Hello Again,
I recently purchased a 96XXX R13. I love it! Hoever, this had lead to some other equipment changes from my E11. The main change being the mouthpiece. I had a Vandoren M13 on my E11, which I loved, but it plays 20 cents flat across the entire R13, pushed in.
I purchased an M15, tuned to 442 to remedy this. But that was a nuclear option! Now I pull out 2 or 3mm. Is this too far to pull out? I think this gives me flexibility to tune my instrument based on the the environment. For example, if the practice room/concert hall is cold, I can start pushed-in and pull out over time.
Is this approach crazy? I don't plan on playing in Europe. Should I send this piece back for an M15 tuned to 440? What do you think?
Thanks!
Chane Smith
Director - Instrumental Music
Glenwood Sprgs. MS and HS
Glenwood Springs, CO.
Post Edited (2015-03-27 19:41)
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2015-03-27 21:03
Firstly not all of Europe plays at 442. Here in the UK its 440.
Secondly have you looked at the barrel length of the R13? To play comfortably at 440 a 65 or 66 barrel will work. Sounds to me like your barrel might be too long hence the overall flatness you describe.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: CSmith2007
Date: 2015-03-27 21:13
It is a 66. If I moved to 65, would that make 20 cents worth of a difference?
Chane Smith
Director - Instrumental Music
Glenwood Sprgs. MS and HS
Glenwood Springs, CO.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2015-03-27 21:28
Is the R13 barrel a 66 mm, or has a previous owner substituted a longer barrel, maybe because *his* mouthpiece played sharp on the 66? I'm a little surprised if an M13 plays *overall* so flat on an original 66 mm barrel.
Nonetheless, pulling out 2 mm for a sharper mouthpiece isn't so big a problem. The main issue with pulling the barrel (or the mouthpiece) out to that degree is that, in theory, the gap that's created inside can cause some turbulence issues and affect response. If you aren't feeling increased resistance as a result of a 3 mm pull, it probably doesn't matter. The barrel will still be perfectly stable on the tenon.
I'd consider the possibility of staying with your M13, if you like it a lot, and trying a shorter barrel. You can get 64 mm to 67 mm as standard after-market alternatives. If the one you have is a 67, try a 65 and see what it accomplishes.
If you reach a point where the M13 plays slightly above A=440 (to leave you a little flexibility) but the throat notes are still a little low - particularly G, G#/Ab, A and A#/Bb - those can be made sharper by a competent repair person. Flatness in the throat notes was my only intonation problem when I played Series 13 Vandorens for a short while, but in the end I moved on to other mouthpieces instead of having the adjustments made to my clarinets.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-03-27 22:33
I don't really see any reason preventing you from adjusting the barrel out other than actual tuning PROBLEMS.
Here is the practical limit: If you pull out to the point your open "G" is starting to get flat but your third line "B" and the "C" above it are still sharp, then you have gone beyond the ability to adjust with the barrel.
I have personally not experienced any issues with 'the gap,' per se, as long as the barrel still holds on to the top joint securely.
...........Paul Aviles
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Author: TomS
Date: 2015-03-28 02:12
Wow!
My R13s with M13 (440) mouthpiece played well with stock 65 mm or Scott 66 mm. Reeds were V12s ... and I had to pull a little to play 440, so just about right amount of "wiggle room" in tuning ...
I've always played in the high side ... but not as badly as I get older and wiser(?) ...
Tom
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Author: CSmith2007
Date: 2015-03-28 05:28
I've actually read a few cases on this board that say M13s play flat on R13s. Maybe my horn being older is the reason for this. It may also just be me. Clarinet is my secondary instrument, though it's becoming primary. My embouchure may be lax.
I don't mind the M15 now that I've learned D'Addorio Reserve reeds are the same as the old Rico Reserves. Vandoren reeds and I have never been a good match.
The barrel that came with the horn is a 66, and I just got a 66 Fobes barrel. I'm pleased with the setup for now, maybe a shorter (or longer) barrel will be in the future if I change my mind on the M15. I just want to be sure that I'm not pulling out to a point that it is detrimental.
Chane Smith
Director - Instrumental Music
Glenwood Sprgs. MS and HS
Glenwood Springs, CO.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2015-03-28 10:52
Imagine you are writing with a pencil. If you are able to write what you want and don't have some pain from it, it doesn't matter how you hold it. Same with a clarinet/barrel/mouthpiece. As long as there is no intonation issue or a wobbly joint, it doesn't matter how much the barrel is pulled out. Do you problems like these? You didn't mention any.
You also didn't mention if the previous mouthpiece was in tune before or after warming up, to compare more directly with the new one. This is important because usually you would need a setup that allows playing in tune with varying warming up times.
You can always get a longer barrel or a different mouthpiece but it depends if there's a reason to do that.
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Author: MSK
Date: 2015-03-28 18:29
I used an M13 lyre for a while with my older R13, but have to use a 65 mm barrel to compensate for it's flatness. I've since switched to a different MP because it was such a problem. It's a shame, because I otherwise really liked the M13 MP.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2015-03-31 17:09
My old Bb and A Buffets are both in the 90K series and I use a 67 barrel on both. It depends on the mouthpiece you use and how you voice. If you have to pull out too much the top joint will eventually become wobbely so you need to be careful of that. Except for that it's all about tuning. I don't know how the throat tones can be well in tune relative to the Break notes pulled out that much and also be well in tune pushed in as well. My preference has always been to have the proper size barrel once warmed up and "tuned" my instrument so it played it's best. Of course I was a professional symphony player. I prefer no more than one mm variance myself. By the way, on my newer Selmer Bb I use a 62.5 barrel. The bores are so different.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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