 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: NHBCOS1-1
Date: 2015-03-19 23:39
Unfortunately I think I have isolated the problem to me and not my instruments.
I have a problem making the last 2-3 notes on the top end of the clarion register speak. I can slur to thes easily, but rarely can tongue them and have them properly speak. I can easily tongue the next register up and notes below.
The way I have isolated it to me is my primary instrument is a Buffet R13 Festival with a Vandoren M13 lyre, but I also play a Noblet Alto clarinet with a C* mouthpiece, and a Bundy Bass clarinet with an early Peter Eaton mouthpiece.
The problem remains constant over all instruments. I have been playing for the last 10 years but have played for 16 years covering 45 years.
I have learned to make changes to lessen the problem for these few notes, but I'd like to attack the root cause. I've tried using more mouthpiece, but any more, it squeaks. Reed placement and strength doesn't help.
I know it's difficult without seeing/hearing, but anyone have suggestions?
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2015-03-20 00:36
Without hearing you it's difficult to say but try taking more mouthpiece and relying on the air flow and corners of the mouth to keep things steady.
Edit, I see you mentioned about mouthpiece but you need to think about how your oral cavity interacts with the amount of mouthpiece you take. Keep the throat relaxed (as in a natural way not a forced yawn way) and blow.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2015-03-20 02:19
Are you talking about B5 and C6 (with C4 depicted as a reference next to the title of this board)?
What happens when you tongue the notes? You specify that they don't speak properly. Sometimes the upper clarion B and C, when tongued, tend to start with a short "uh" sound. I believe this has been discussed here before, and I haven't read those threads but I probably should, because sometimes I lapse into that "uh" thing.
If that's the problem, then for me the issue tends to be tongue position. Tip-to-tip tonguing, lightly done, deflects the reed virtually not at all. That's pertinent. Also, having the tongue always ready for tip-to-tip seems to lend well to a good arched position, close to the roof & back of the mouth, and that seems pertinent as well in terms of making the notes sound well.
Try playing the notes long-tone, as full and beautifully as possible, and then begin interrupting them with the lightest possible legato articulation, say in halves or quarters. The tongue need barely move. If you get that to work so the legato tones speak as you want and remain full and beautiful, then progressively shorten the notes (i.e., lengthen the articulation with the tongue), and get that to work. You'll probably notice what's happening at this stage. Then try doing the same with standalone notes.
Now, if the issue is not the preliminary "uh" sound, then is it the slightly flat, kind of blaring sound (which I also sometimes catch myself doing in that register)? That seems to relate more to a) jutting the jaw out and down for no good reason but it has a mind of its own, and b) tongue position deeper in the mouth, where again I prefer to position the tongue a little towards the back, rather than fully open and relaxed. (I may start another thread some day on the meaning of "relaxed").
Note, if what I say differs from what Peter Cigleris or almost any regular here says, you should assume they have more and better experience and expertise, as my suggestions derive only from my own isolated struggles and thoughts.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-03-20 02:23
Since tonguing is a bit more "physical," my guess is that you equate that with too much embouchure control (biting). It's easier to feel what's going on when slurring because there is context there. Tongued notes are "separate entities." The biting is closing off the aperture formed by the tip of the mouthpiece and tip of the reed.
I would say be conscientious about NOT biting (keep the embouchure open using more of your cheek muscles for support NOT your jaw muscles for 'clamping').
...........Paul Aviles
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Author: annev
Date: 2015-03-21 20:41
I don't know if this will be helpful, but I'll share it, just in case. I've had a similar problem with A5, which bothered me for about two years. The note was always fine when I slurred up or down to it, but would be unstable (squawk), at times, when I tongued to it. It wasn't consistent, sometimes it would be "on" and sometimes "off" and I always knew the feeling when it was working well but couldn't find it when it wasn't happening well. It would happen when my embouchure was tight and also when it was loose. My teacher and I worked at it endlessly. Finally I found two things that helped. The first was to think of my embouchure as an oval, so drawing the corners in more and feeling snug but not tight around the mouthpiece. It left more of a cushion type feeling from my lower lip. The second was faster air. I'm always amazed just how much air the clarinet takes. When my embouchure is steady and supportive and that fast airflow feeling is there, everything is stable and the reed speaks just beautifully, through all the notes and registers.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2015-03-22 00:41
NHBCOS1-1 wrote:
> I have learned to make changes to lessen the problem for these
> few notes, but I'd like to attack the root cause. I've tried
> using more mouthpiece, but any more, it squeaks.
It's not possible to know for certain what the "root cause" is from a verbal description here. But your reference to trying more mouthpiece and squeaking suggests a possibility that you may be actually taking too much reed in to begin with. Many players recommend taking in the maximal amount of reed possible short of squeaking. Sometimes if you're on the border of too much you can be partially out of control but not yet to the point of uncontrollable squeaks. Response problems will tend to get worse as you go higher, so the most vulnerable clarion notes would be A5 through C6. A5 in particular can be finicky anyway because of problems related to the size and placement of the register vent on your specific clarinet model.
Of course, you say you aren't having trouble once you get up into the altissimo register, which may argue against my suggestion. Those notes would probably be unstable with too much reed. Still, if nothing else has worked consistently, you can't lose anything by trying less reed in your mouth.
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-03-22 01:31
Using the maximum amount of reed "possible" would mean just that. There would be no squeaks or "being partially out of control." If you use less than the usable amount of lay, you then make the lay shorter, but not necessarily in a usable way (that depends on the the curvature of the lay as it swoops away from contact with the reed).
Then higher notes are taken out of the equation from the above scenario because only the very tip of the reed vibrates to produce the altissimo notes.
..............Paul Aviles
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