 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: derf5585
Date: 2015-03-07 21:15
What do you believe the clarinet and clarinet playing will be like in 75 years?
fsbsde@yahoo.com
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Author: nata
Date: 2015-03-07 22:14
I saw an electronic clarinet on youtube once... it was weird, but I would not be surprised that it will become more prevalent in the next 75 years.
Hard rubber clarinets will dominate as the cost of african wood will skyrocket.
Maybe we will have stainless steel keywork soon.
My belief is that cane reeds will be outcompeted by synthetics (as they become of higher quality and become cheaper).
Tuning problems in the vast majority of clarinets (except for Ridenour's) will be fixed....
The A clarinet will decline in usage as there are less and less nonprofessional players that play in symphony orchestra (because they chose band or because the community orchestras play music with poor ability- leaving a well-developed clarinetist who is more likely to own an A clarinet frustrated and he/she will leave it for a community band, where A clarinets are less needed).
Wooden clarinets will become exotic instruments, much like the metal clarinets are now days.
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2015-03-07 22:35
Mozart's clarinet works will still be performed and recorded too much compared to the clarinet pieces of every other composer in history combined, which will still be performed and recorded too rarely.
Clarinets and clarinet equipment will be 3d printed at home or regionally, available same day.
Or...... perhaps we'll be living in a post-apocalyptic landscape of nothing but MacGyverd Bundys and Vitos with hand carved 'reeds' made from local materials.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2015-03-07 23:09
nata wrote,
>My belief is that cane reeds will be outcompeted by synthetics (as they become of higher quality and become cheaper).
>
[snip]
>Wooden clarinets will become exotic instruments, much like the metal clarinets are now days.
>
I agree. The best wood today is too quickly aged for best sturdiness. Also, it's less dense than old wood to begin with, because the farming techniques speed up the growth. I think plastic will gradually lose its reputation as the material for cheap instruments and become the material of choice for the top-quality clarinets, manufactured to higher standards than the plastic student instruments of today.
nellsonic wrote,
>>clarinets and clarinet equipment will be 3d printed at home or regionally, available same day.>>
I'd be surprised if home-printed clarinets become popular, because quality (or perception of quality) could be a lingering problem, but I think we'll be 3-D printing our own reeds for sure -- maybe only five or ten years from now.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: bill28099
Date: 2015-03-07 23:13
3D printing of reeds, I like that concept. Complete control of hardness and repeatability. Now the question is how many thousand will you have to make before you find the one that works for you.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
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Author: ClaV
Date: 2015-03-07 23:22
Reeds are anisotropic (fibers), so 3-D printing would hardly work! Precise (and affordable) CNC-like reed-cutting machines may be more of a reality, if artificial intelligence won't totally overpower humans by then ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2015-03-07 23:36
The future is not predictable; we live in a non-deterministic world. But we can at least imagine possible futures that may or may not ever come to be.
I imagine that the world's most expert flute makers will for unaccountable reasons decide to start making clarinets their way rather than the traditional way. The mechanism, through still basically Buffet-Klose-Boehm will be vastly improved. The keys will be reduced in size, the springs more durable, the pads less noisy and less subject to accumulation of moisture, the intonation more even, and the entire design more rational. A certain as yet unnamed genius in materials science (I can almost make out her face in my imagination) will discover a moisture-absorbing material that can remove all the moisture a clarinet bore can accumulate in the course of three hours continuous playing, thus eliminating the need for swabbing between performances and making gurgles from saturated pads a thing of the past.
And yes, a brand of clarinet will be named in her honor, and she will take her rightful place alongside the hallowed names of Klose/Buffet/Boehm/Muller/Oehler.
Flute makers' clarinets will be made from composite materials, rubber, and also the same metals used for flutes. New alloys will emerge (including blends of titanium, silver, gold, and platinum) that provide lush, intense tonal coloration, effortless projection, and liquid legato.
Cane will still be the preferred material for reeds, but the cane with be scientifically bred or genetically modified to last as least as long as composites do and sound better.
Ligatures, following the beginning example of Jean Luc Vignaud'(JLV ligature) will gradually get better and better at filtering the least desirable partials and enhancing the most desirable, depending of course on individual players' needs.
Mouthpiece makers will finally produce the very best H. Chedeville copy that is possible, and then go on from there. The 22nd century clarinet mouthpiece will often be based on acrylic and composite materials with embedded metal flecks and titanium resonance rings, developing the pioneering efforts of Kuckmeier in Austria and the "Blue Heaven" material of the EMS MCK1, as well as the continuing advances made by Brad Behn.
Flute makers will become as expert in crafting clarinet mouthpieces as they now are in making head joints for flutes.
Post Edited (2015-03-07 23:47)
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-03-08 01:56
If recent history is any trend, I truly fear the even greater reduction in subscription based venues at which to watch classical music, at least in the U.S., and its affect on all instruments for which this genre of music plays a large role: the clarinet, and those that play it for a living not the least of those negatively impacted.
So many U.S. symphonies are closing their doors, employing their members only part time, and barely making ends meet. Even employed musicians have had to band together to fight for decent rights in prestigous places like the Metropolitan Opera, where to say it's an employer's market (not an employee's) is an understatement.
I truly hope the saying "what was old is new again," applies to classical performance before current domestic classical music trends convert "the big 5" orchestras into the U.S.'s "only 5 paid orchestras."
My bad dream finds a PBS announcer saying, "That was Anthony McGill playing the Mozart Clarinet Concerto with the Philarmonic, now shaking the concert master's hand. A graduate of the Curtis Institute, and master plumber with local 705, McGill spends his free time, when not laying pipe, as the orchestra's clarinet principle."
Mind you, there's nothing wrong with being a plumber, except if you have to be one to support being at the top of your game playing classical music.
Post Edited (2015-03-08 01:58)
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2015-03-08 02:20
In 1986, Donn Laurence Mills wrote an article in the Instrumentalist Magazine, "Electronic Music in the Classroom." I no longer have that particular issue and the article is not available online, but I recall that it made quite a splash when it appeared. Mills predicted that school music ensembles, as we knew them at the time, would soon be obsolete. Instead of traditional clarinets, saxophones, flutes, etc., students would be soon be playing wind controllers. Here we are, almost 30 years later, and Mills' prediction hasn't come true.
Back in the early 60s, when I was starting on the clarinet, my teacher had an instrument with an articulated G# key. There were several clarinets on the market at the time with this feature, but today there are very few. Back then, it appeared that it might be an addition that would possibly become standard on all clarinets of the future (just as the saxophone high F# key has almost become standard), but this hasn't happened. I also recall a lot of excitement in the 60s about the Mazzeo system, but no current manufacturer has shown any interest in reviving it.
It's so hard to predict the future, but like many of you, I think new materials will be developed to replace wood as the clarinet material of choice. I also think synthetic reeds will improve (they've already come a long way from the Fibercane reeds of the 60s), and they will gradually replace cane reeds.
Post Edited (2015-03-08 02:22)
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2015-03-08 03:37
ClaV, I think 3d printing of anistropic materials would work, and searching the topic reveals that it is being tried with promising results (but not clarinet reeds, as yet.) Fabricating anistropic materials is probably easier via 3d printing than using some other technologies.
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Author: derf5585
Date: 2015-03-08 03:50
" I think 3d printing of anistropic materials would work,"
3D PRINTING OF ANISOTROPIC METAMATERIALS
from
http://www.jpier.org/PIERL/pier.php?paper=12070311
fsbsde@yahoo.com
Post Edited (2015-03-08 03:50)
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Author: brycon
Date: 2015-03-08 04:27
Quote:
Or..... perhaps we'll be living in a post-apocalyptic landscape of nothing but MacGyverd Bundys and Vitos with hand carved 'reeds' made from local materials.
Yes! "Which mouthpiece is good for gouging out the eyes of maurading bandits and for playing chamber music?" It would take an apocalypse to make equipment threads interesting...
Post Edited (2015-03-08 04:28)
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Author: TomS
Date: 2015-03-08 05:06
I predict that we will come to our senses soon, and with planning and investments, we will assure the supply of excellent hardwoods for musical instruments. Yes, hard rubber and synthetics are better in many ways, but I wouldn't want to see wood a thing of the past. Watch the movie "Silent Running" for a preview of our future if we aren't careful ...
Natural reeds will continue to improve in manufacturing and machines will be able to measure the balance and response of each individual reed and make custom cutting adjustments. In addition, you will be able to order, or make at home with a modest investment, reeds to your exact custom specifications and in small quantities. This will go for synthetic reeds as well, you just order plastic blanks.
CNC machining and robots will replace most human labor on clarinets, but will allow more time for hands-on QC, customization, and final tweaks, so everyone keeps their jobs!
Various parameters of clarinet performance will be identified and measured in a standard and highly scientific way, and those figures of merit will be listed with each clarinet for purchasers to ponder before having several delivered for trial to their homes, via UAVs.
Miracle medicine will allow everyone to have useful careers well into their 2nd century of life. Our greatest clarinet performers will continue performing for many decades beyond today's expectations. Woodwind designers such as Morrie Backun, Guy Chadash, Eric Baret and Tom Ridenour will enjoy endless leisure hours of friendly tennis, golf, fishing and BBQ dinners together, while exchanging notes on designs and anecdotal tales. Their factories will be churning out super quality instruments by the millions, as the clarinet eclipses all other instruments in popularity worldwide.
I HOPE the future is this bright! It might get dimmer and look like it's gonna burn out, but lets just patiently work harder and smarter and together and see what happens.
And I really don't intend any of this to be sarcastic at all. I am hoping that technology and society will turn a corner and all will be much better ... just stay tuned. Crazier things have happened ...
Tom
Post Edited (2015-03-08 05:13)
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Author: eddiec ★2017
Date: 2015-03-08 05:08
Maybe we'll have synthetic grenadilla, grown in a big vat, and of uniform consistency and quality.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2015-03-08 05:16
Let's just find a good spot for it to grow naturally for 80 years, and leave it alone.
Tom
Post Edited (2015-03-08 05:18)
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Author: ClaV
Date: 2015-03-08 05:59
derf5585 wrote:
> " I think 3d printing of anistropic materials would work,"
> 3D PRINTING OF ANISOTROPIC METAMATERIALS
> from http://www.jpier.org/PIERL/pier.php?paper=12070311
NOPE! (not for clarinet reeds that was the point)
While your search had all right "keywords", the original point got totally lost.
True, materials with anisotropic properties (like those metamaterials in your reference) can be made by 3-D printing. These metamaterials have anisotropy of the lattice which gives rise to very interesting optical properties. But the anisotropy there is of the OPTICAL properties.
Reeds are made out of fibers (be it cellulose of cane, polypropylene of Legere, etc). These fibers are aligned in one direction (Legere, I believe, also employs biaxial stretching that would give good uniformity). This alignment (with the continuity) imparts good rigidity and resilience. In 3-D printing, little "dots" are deposited. Connections between the deposited dots are fairly weak, which is especially problematic for something which needs to vibrate reliably at high frequencies.
Post Edited (2015-03-08 06:27)
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Author: ClaV
Date: 2015-03-08 06:02
I do believe carbon fibers or related materials can make a perfect substitute for grenadilla. Materials based on carbon fibers work well for string instruments and piano soundboards, so they can make perfect light and crack-free materials for clarinets.
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Author: Wisco99
Date: 2015-03-08 08:01
I hate to break it to everyone, but the future was here a decade ago. Clarinet is one of several woodwind instruments I play, and I added a new product by Yamaha called the WX-5 wind controller with a
VL70m tone module. I then ran that into a tube pre-amp and then into my mixer and through the P.A. and monitors. The tone module had the conventional synth keyboard sounds, but I never used them. There were 64 sounds, some of them instruments, some new sounds that were the holy grail that I bought it for. It cost Yamaha a small fortune to come up with those sounds, but many of them were as good as a real instrument, especially the clarinet patch. It also had effects such as reverb already added. I had people from the Milwaukee Symphony coming into the hotel I was playing at across the street to listen to it and they were amazed that it sounded like a real clarinet. It was perfectly in tune and had 5 octave keys. The "instrument" that I played was plastic with a reed, but the reed did not vibrate, it merely responded to pressure. I had quite a few music teachers come up to me to find out what it was because it produced authentic clarinet, oboe, bassoon, harmonica, piccolo, and other instruments so well. I did not have to deal with reeds because the reed on it never wore out since it did not vibrate. No ligatures or mouthpieces since it came with its own mouthpiece, and it was very light in weight. It was especially great for jazz and some of the best clarinet players in town were amazed at how authentic it sounded. It used saxophone fingerings so it was a piece of cake to play. I never had to practice it, I just picked it up and played.
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Author: MrWalnut4
Date: 2015-03-08 08:53
I'm surprised there hasn't been a utilitarian approach to the clarinet yet. A more minimalist design: no frills, just what is necessary to make a beautiful sound. I'd like to see a synthetic clarinet body whether it be hard rubber, carbon fiber or plastic, more tarnish resistant key material like stainless steel, a magical synthetic tenon cork like the Buffet Divine has, and maybe a reworking of the key mechanism. Relocate tone holes, adjust key positions, whatever it takes to get a truly in tune clarinet. It could be a hybrid of the boehm system and something new, maybe more like saxophone keywork. I'd want it to be no nonsense, with much less upkeep and able to play just a well as any clarinet available today. It would be nice to see something like that to completely break away from any preconceptions about how clarinets are built and the romance around traditional design.
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Author: ClaV
Date: 2015-03-08 17:45
Irwin J wrote:
> the future is here today - my Greenline Festival : )
Since it is already here today - it is the present
Future will surely have much more to offer!
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Author: TomS
Date: 2015-03-08 18:42
That is correct: "what is old is new".
I am hopeful that after decades of technology "advancement", all will eventually reach a plateau, due to bumping the known ceiling in physics. I am not sure that Moore's law applies, forever, I think it gets compressed towards the end ... For example, microprocessor clock speeds haven't increased significantly in the last 5-10 years ... we are trying to improve performance with multi-cores, nowadays. Of course, new processor architecture will evolve, but we still has a brick wall at some point, unless we encounter friendly advanced alien civilizations ...
Of course, every generation thinks they have the last word in technology. Back in the early 1900s, the US patent office considered closing because "everything that could be invented, had been"
Isolation of humans from each other, communicating only with electronic means, and the reciprocity effect of trying to advance technology, with no exciting "gee whiz" stuff on the horizon, will ultimately bore everyone to death. Everyone looking for a new area of interest.
That's when we will start reverting back to the "old ways". A novelty at first, but soon catching fire. Binary is out, analog is king! Computer burning, smart phones crushed under bull dossers, books being hauled out of attics and actually read. Real instruments removed from museums, cloned and played!
So, is this our path ... or is it infinite extrapolation of technology?
Tom
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2015-03-08 19:32
I am hoping that as lifespans grow, more and more people will make a point of taking in the performing arts as a worthwhile diversion in their golden years. Sadly, people in their working years seem to have less available time for art appreciation with each passing year--it was predicted not so many years ago that the standard work week would be 35 hours by now...
For the clarinet itself, I'd wager that weatherproof pads will be invented that will last the lifetime of an instrument, and they'll work so well that we'll all have our present instruments fitted with them at their next overhaul.
Perhaps a jewelled receiver for pivot screws will be fitted to the end of wear-prone key barrels, greatly extending the life of key work and helping to keep instruments in regulation for much longer.
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2015-03-08 19:36
Tom, your post sums up what I was thinking in my last post: People may turn to the performing arts because they're already experienced every other form of entertainment to the point of utter boredom.
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Author: Irwin J
Date: 2015-03-09 02:42
Ursa, responding to "I am hoping that as lifespans grow, more and more people will make a point of taking in the performing arts as a worthwhile diversion in their golden years" . . . that is precisely what I've chosen to do. I've played for years in community bands but not taken them seriously. Now as I approach retirement I've decided to rededicate myself to playing the clarinet and hope that when I finally depart this earth I'll be a measurably better player than I am now. It's wonderful having the gift of music and knowing that no matter how long I play it will always challenge me to achieve the next level. Non-musicians really don't know what they're missing!
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Author: Michael E. Shultz
Date: 2015-03-09 03:02
Not only are new pianos not selling, but used pianos have no value. I was told that by the auctioneer when I sold my parents' house and contents. We moved the childhood piano to my house.
They closed a school recently and auctioned the contents. A coworker bought a piano for a few dollars. The piano upstairs, which was in like new condition, sold for one dollar. The buyer presumably rounded up some strong friends to carry it down the stairs, as the school had no elevator.
Anyone who wants to learn keyboard buys an electronic keyboard today.
Encyclopedia sets have no value, either.
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."
Groucho Marx
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-03-09 04:56
TomS wrote:
"I predict that we will come to our senses soon, and with planning and investments, we will assure the supply of excellent hardwoods for musical instruments."
Don't get me wrong, how I wish it would be so Tom. But stated in the most optimistic terms, I have my doubts. Stated in what I see as realistic terms, in the absense of enfoced regulation, profit oriented clarinet makers will not responsibly manage grenadilla production. You need look no futher than all the animals that have become extinct on our (mankind's) watch because of the things we've done, not because of natural forces.
Ironically enough, assure such a supply might involve an 80 year hiatus from grenadilla clarinet making (unless we find some way to grow these trees super fast), while restoring the population, in which time market forces will bring forth equal of not superior materials for making instruments out of.
Like you, I'd like to have option to use wood for making clarinets, if not the necessity not to because no more grenadilla exists.
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Author: derf5585
Date: 2015-03-09 05:10
Like you, I'd like to have option to use wood for making clarinets, if not the necessity not to because no more grenadilla exists.
Remember that predictions of running out of fossil fuel in a few years never came to pass.
Maybe grenadilla is in the same boat.
Small growers in Naples, Florida have been successful in growing African blackwood there. Growth habit in Florida yields taller, larger trees, and the rich soil combined with ample nutrients and long growing season yields timber of superior quality at more sustainable rates. Hopefully, ventures like this will be able to take strain off of African reserves and allow this timber to be used in the future
from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalbergia_melanoxylon
fsbsde@yahoo.com
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Author: Wisco99
Date: 2015-03-09 07:10
Micheal made a very valid point about pianos. They are not selling, and they no longer retain or increase in value. Very few piano stores remain, and they are struggling to stay open. I think the one thing we all have in common is we were part of a school music program growing up. Milwaukee had one of the finest school music programs in the country, and today there is virtually nothing left of it. They fired the teachers, sold the instruments, and what is left is not much. Without a school music program running through grades 5-12 you will not have a future for wind or string instruments. Music and art seem to be the first programs cut when a school budget takes a hit. As little music as Milwaukee has left in the public schools, the system will take a $159 million cut next year in federal support. If I were a soothsayer, I would say the days of playing clarinet are numbered. Symphony orchestras face the same budget cutting fate, and they too are going under. That is the reality. Without a music program in place starting in grade school and going through high school, there will not be anyone buying clarinets or other band instruments. In the end it comes down to money, and music is not a top priority in schools.
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Author: BflatNH
Date: 2015-03-12 03:07
Maybe take a look at what has happened to the piano:
< http://www.boganyi-piano.com/en/piano >
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Author: ariel3
Date: 2015-03-13 20:58
I am already there - to a degree. I play MAZZEO clarinets !
Gene
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2015-03-13 21:06
From my perspective, it doesn't make much difference what technology comes up with if we don't put more effort into developing the musicians to use it. Where I live, the high school "music department" offers guitar, voice, and percussion. While there is noting wrong with those instruments, you would be hard pressed to play a symphony with that combination. I play in a very good community band and, in support of music in our public schools, at some point during a concert we normally have every member who had music in a public school stand. Every member (including our 90+ year old member) will stand. There are a few schools within commute distance (in some cases that being as much as an hour drive time or more) that still have some limited band programs, so we usually have one or two of their best students playing with us. However, there is no orchestral program I am aware of being available other than a youth symphony that has been run by our director and covers several counties. I won't even go into the well established connection between music and academics. I don't believe it matters what amazing technology you might come up with if you have no one who can use it musically.
Yes, I put my money where my mouth is. I buy clarinets off the auction site, overhaul them, and donate them to high school music programs willing to accept them. I expect to receive one today from one of my former chemistry students. Her oldest son is ready to start in music and she would like grand dad's early Bundy gone over. I will repad, recork, adjust, etc. gratis and return it to her. At one point, our community band played a double concert with the youth symphony with our band playing first. As we were leaving the stage, I noticed that the clarinetist for the youth symphony was looking very distressed. It turned out that his clarinet suddenly would not play. Taking the time to repair it would have delayed the concert, so I handed him my Series 9 to use. I have never seen a student handle an instrument more carefully or play with more confidence.
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2015-03-14 06:28
One characteristic of our band is that it includes a significant number of former and current educators and several former and current professional musicians. I am not unique in that group, but thank you for your kind comment, Lelia. We are serious about supporting music education in an area where it is in significant danger.
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Author: Alex K.
Date: 2015-03-16 01:06
I just hope the clarinet will become more popular than the Justin Bieber of the future
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Author: Dibbs
Date: 2015-03-16 14:08
I predict that there will be no significant changes to the clarinet in the next 75 years. Intonation might improve a little. Much the same as the last 75 years.
All the major changes to the instrument occurred during the 19th century. Not much has happened since.
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Author: saxlite
Date: 2015-03-16 17:15
While in the U.S. declining audiences for classical music and poor support of music instruction in schools seems to unfortunately be an unstoppable trend, the future is here today as to producing fine clarinets and reeds. Tom Ridenour has shown that hard rubber produces clarinets equal or superior to Grenadilla wood (it's the bore shape, folks!). Legere and Forestone produce fine reeds from molded polyethylene. Harry Hartmann's Fiberreeds produces excellent reeds
(mostly for saxophone so far) that are made from CNC machined fiberglass. These folks continue to refine their products and they and other manufacturers will easily obsolete the natural materials that we fear will become unavailable. Universities and music academies crank out young musicians whose capabilities are incredible, yet there are very few opportunities for them to secure a career in their field of expertise. The future of superior clarinet instrument manufacturing technology is quite secure, while sadly, the market for clarinet music is in great danger, at least in the U.S.
Jerry
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Author: derf5585
Date: 2015-03-21 00:04
How about really far out stuff
A thought controlled clarinet.
fsbsde@yahoo.com
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Author: Wisco99
Date: 2015-03-21 00:54
Almost all of the clarinets you hear in a movie soundtrack are computer generated and not a real clarinet. And most of the real clarinets you may hear are recorded in eastern Europe where it can be done very cheaply. I truly doubt that in 75 years anyone will be making or playing a clarinet. School music programs are being wiped out and getting worse, and as others have pointed out the universities keep cranking out all those clarinet players with a degree for jobs that do not exist. At some point it just ends. Probably many years ago some musicians talked about what the crumhorn would be like in 75 years. Well I guess we know.
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Author: BflatNH
Date: 2015-03-21 01:12
FWIW, I understand that Clarinet players are the rock stars of Turkey, body guards and all.
But I hear they have to get 31 intervals to the octave!
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Author: Johan H Nilsson
Date: 2015-03-21 01:19
Two points:
1. Today's clarinets are not *that* different from those 75 years ago. Considering its age of +250 years, the clarinet has evolved quite slowly.
2. Technological development might be slower in the future than in the past.
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Author: Johan H Nilsson
Date: 2015-03-21 01:21
BartHx wrote:
"From my perspective, it doesn't make much difference what technology comes up with if we don't put more effort into developing the musicians to use it."
Hear, hear!
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