 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-03-02 07:53
Does someone have a an answer, even if it's just "the company line," to how one might ask, "why did you design a case where the bell remains attached to the lower joint?"
Is it that most of these cases allow some seperation of the bell and lower joint when storing the instrument?
Is that company line something like "those who own our cases we assume to be professionals who routinely play their instruments, and seperate/grease the tenon between the lower joint and the barrel?"
Anyone will tell you that keeping joints together for long periods of time is a recipe for problems.
Again, I'm not asking you to believe in what such an answer to my question might be. Maybe some of you just recall how clarinet makers who sold their instruments with such cases justified it (if they did at all.) Even Tosca's cases are designed this way today. I don't get it. Would making the case an inch wider or deeper have really been that big a deal? Do clarinet makers who sell their instrument with such cases feel that joints not seperated enough and seizing/locking together is overstated?
Is it overstated?
I've heard keeping these sections together, if nothing else, is a good way to damage the cork on the tenon, as revealed if/when the sections are separated.
Thanks.
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Author: Jamnik
Date: 2015-03-02 08:54
I can see the argument both ways. Lots of older lower tenons have cracks possibly/probably caused by stress. Removing and placing the bell off and on the tenon over and over is most likely the main form of stress especially if the cork is not greased properly or is thicker causing a tight fit to begin with. Leaving the joints connected can't be that great either due to condensation build up which could rot the cork prematurely and possibly the tenon joint too. It's worked for this long, why change it? Separate each piece!
Jamnik
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2015-03-02 09:00
I agree completely. I've bought a number of old clarinets in these cases, some of them quite prestigious instruments, and a number of them needed something just short of demolition charges to separate the bell from the lower joint or the barrel from the upper joint. Such cases have all been dispatched to the garbage tip.
Tony F.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2015-03-02 12:56
Time to put on my curmudgeon hat, I guess.
I have a Yamaha double case that I've been using since whatever I had before (I think a Buffet case) fell apart - has to be 20 years, but I think more. The bell and lower joint are stored together.
Yes, it does take major careful effort to separate them if I have left them alone for a long time. The cork grease stiffens into something resembling paste and, I imagine, the tenon cork swells to the extent the bell socket allows. I do remove the bell at least every few months . Whether there's some reason or not.
Guess what? No damage, no cracks. I wipe off the cork, apply fresh grease and assemble the rest of the clarinet. I don't think my repair guy (Mike Hammer for the last 25 or 30 years) probably likes it much if I haven't preemptively freed the bell before I bring the clarinets to him for work, but nonetheless, there's never been damage caused to the cork on either of the clarinets I carry in the case. I actually don't remember the last time the tenon corks on the lower joints were replaced on either one. I've been through a number of replacements on every other cork on both.
I'm not saying I recommend the pochette cases over the larger ones that store the bell separately. I think the only reason for the bell-on design is to save space. I'd actually not buy a new case that didn't let me separate the bell, because I don't like going through the periodic ritual of pulling them apart. It *is possible* if you aren't careful - or even if you are - to bend keys in the process. But the bottom line is that, unlike the barrel, which needs to be movable to adjust pitch, the bell can be pretty much left alone once you've found where it needs to be to tune E/B, giving no real need to move it from week to week or even month to month.
The biggest problem is that it makes it easier to test for suction in the lower joint if the bell is off.
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-03-02 13:19
Simply the design saves on room. It is assumed that one takes the bell off to wipe out the socket whenever the instrument is played.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2015-03-02 18:17
In the 60s these were called "French" style. (Some cases had the barrel attached to the upper joint....but these were older.)
Nearly all of the pros used them....lighter, smaller, easier to pack into a briefcase (forerunner of the gig bag--AMG carried a nice tan briefcase and looked like a lawyer in center city Phila). This was the choice of the pros. They assembled the instrument (on stage) and checked the seating of the bell. Notably, there was space for an extra barrel.
Of course, you covered the case with a canvas zippered fitted cover, with leather trim!
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Ed
Date: 2015-03-02 19:57
Just to add- I have used one of these pocket style cases for years with no problems.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2015-03-02 20:50
I prefer to take clarinets apart for storage. Some of my yard sale and flea market finds probably had remained partially assembled in their cases for years. Some were nearly impossible to wrest apart. Some were full of mold, mildew, live vermin or dead vermin, thanks to being put away damp. Dampness remaining inside the bore after swabbing dries out much faster if the clarinet is disassembled.
I wonder whether anybody in the history of clarinet playing has ever decided, "Well, I'll never play the clarinet again, so I'd better make sure to store it disassembled, so the corks don't bind and the inside dries out completely." Nope. We don't know when this time may be the last time we play that particular clarinet. Better to assume, always, that we're storing it for posterity -- and for me that means taking all the sections apart, every time.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2015-03-02 20:54
If you use such a case (common for orchestral players - having both a Bb and A):
When done playing, remove the bell, dry the socket and the lower joint tenon. (I use an old handkerchief: cotton) Grease the cork, put it back together and into the case. Don't just put it into the case wet - dry out the tenons and sockets first.
I've been doing this for more years than I'll admit, without problems.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: mikeW
Date: 2015-03-02 22:55
I have a Buffet double case in which there seems to be a little extra room in the space for the lower joint and bell assembly, so I put the bell onto the lower tenon very loosely when putting the clarinets into the case. I usually apply cork grease before playing and not after swabbing out the clarinets.
As more of a big band/pit player, I usually carry the Bb clarinet around in another case, and the A clarinet has spent some long stretches sitting in the case. I have not experienced any problems with the corks or with being unable to separate the bell from the lower joint.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2015-03-03 00:00
Cork has an amazing ability to recover it's shape and dimensions - But only if it not kept compressed for extended periods e.g. days.
I see many many instuments arrive in these cases which do not allow complete separation and almost always the affected cork has developed a texture like cardboard and lost it's resilience.
Usually with the Buffet cases it is possible to partially separate the joint during storage which combined with Buffets conical profile sockets (why o why!!) helps reduce that problem.
I can see no good reason why this style case exists as the space saving is negligible
Mind you back in the 60s some double cases also required the barrel and the mouthpiece to be similarly attached. I ditched mine long ago.
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-03-03 01:22
You know...as much as this might be done to the chagrin of clarinet stand makers with devices designed to fold down into the clarinet's bell when stored in its case, cases could have also been designed to, without the two components touching, have one of the joints, while situated in a clarinet case, extend into the wider end of the bell somewhat, so as to keep case footprint size minimized.
It is though interesting to hear the, "no problems here" stories of those with such cases.
I wish to clarrify that my questioning goes far far more into the manufacturers of such cases' logic, than that of the players who, for many different reasons, may own and use them.
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Author: TJTG
Date: 2015-03-03 02:44
I have used my double pouchette for 10 years without issue. My bell joint corks have maybe been replaced twice in that time. They have never fallen off, swollen, broken, gotten stuck, or shown any problem. I clean them at least once a year but there isn't much to clean. They do not have any signs of degradation and I never loosen them when I put them away. I never adjust them for tuning in rehearsals or performance with the possible exception of chamber music.
I have never understood this "problem".
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