 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-02-26 05:16
Quick check on anyone's recent experience:
I've been using a Rovner Versa lately. It seems for me to combine the best features of both metal and cloth.
Except for my seeming inability to move the mouthpiece between A and Bb clarinets without moving the ligature and reed in the process. I *can* tighten it enough to prevent the slippage, but then the feel becomes noticeably less vibrant and the sound more muffled.
If I don't need to change instruments quickly, it doesn't matter, but that's not always the case.
Has anyone had the same problem and found a solution (short of choosing a different ligature, which may turn out to be the answer)? I found a good many previous postings about how much to tighten ligatures but came up with nothing about solving this specific problem.
Karl
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Author: PR
Date: 2015-02-26 05:49
Had the same thing happen to me- and those ligatures can claw your mouthpiece so badly! My problem was the mouthpiece cork. I used more cork grease and it helped. Worth trying?
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-02-26 05:58
Tried it already. Any more grease and it's going to squeeze out the top of the socket and get all over everything.
Karl
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Author: ClaV
Date: 2015-02-26 06:05
We could not solve this problem for my son playing with his Olegature.
What almost helped - a thinner cork grease (we just had several around) and trying to grip below the ligature using some rubber pieces from rubber gloves. It was not reliable enough though to adapt...
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-02-26 07:11
The cork is dripping with grease. Way more than I would normally use. (See my reply to PR.)
I'm not sure what the structural difference is between Versa and Versa X. I see from the pictures on Rovner's website that the plates appear to be stacked and riveted together (not interchangeable as in the original Versa). I can't tell from the pictures if the cloth body is narrower than the Versa, which would offer more mouthpiece area to grip. Have you also used the original Versa? If you know, does the "Next Generation" Versa X have any less tendency to slide than the original "Classic" Versa?
Karl
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2015-02-26 07:36
Attachment: IMG_2515.jpg (23k)
Sometimes I just grip the sides of the mouthpiece above the ligature while switching instruments so that there's no risk of the ligature slipping off. I attached a pic to show what I mean by that.
Post Edited (2015-02-26 07:37)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-02-26 07:49
That looks like a Vandoren Optimum. That's probably going to be my fallback if I can't get the Versa to work. I can get the Optimum to hold on - there's more mouthpiece exposed above it than with the Versa. I manage the Optimum pretty much the way you describe.
Karl
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-02-26 07:51
That might be worth a try. But it feels like it's slipping on the reed bark more than anything else. I'll try cleaning the mouthpiece off. It can't hurt.
Karl
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-02-26 07:53
![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
Oh...I guess you guys weren't aware that the box stores carry mouthpiece removal hardware for ligatures that tend to slide off when switching between instruments.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-2-in-Spring-Clamp-80002/100027346
I kid you not. I saw a player do this once. Wasn't this specific clamp, but one like it.
Clamp to sides of mouthpiece, use device as torque lever to twist/pull off mouthpiece, put mouthpiece on other clarinet, remove, viola.
Guy must have loved his lig to do this.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-02-26 15:29
With problematic ligatures I do grab more around the beak than around the ligature. Also, (if you can spare the time that is) you can quickly tighten; take off mouthpiece; put back on; loosen. These ligatures make this operation pretty easy.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-02-26 17:00
I see some entrepreneur creating a ligature for your ligature.
Enter the "lig-lig," or "lig squared."
Post Edited (2015-02-26 17:22)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-02-26 18:06
Paul Aviles wrote:
> ...Also, (if you can spare the time that is)
> you can quickly tighten; take off mouthpiece; put back on;
> loosen. These ligatures make this operation pretty easy.
>
Yes, that at least keeps the reed in place. This would work for pieces that have reasonable instrument changes. Then, there's Mahler...
It's hard to understand why this problem never occurred to the product engineers at Vandoren. So many things that reach the market - not at all exclusively in the clarinet world - seem never to have been tested under real world conditions during the design process. Vandoren certainly knows that orchestra players need to change instruments. At least as many move only the mouthpiece, not the barrel. Did no one try to do this at the factory? Did they mean to market this ligature only to band players and pit musicians who don't ever use A clarinets. Even string holds the mouthpiece better, or at least exposes enough mouthpiece to grip around the string.
Thanks for the suggestions. I need to decide if I like the Versa enough compared to a couple of other possibilities that don't have this problem to want to accommodate it in these ways. Maybe use the Versa when I don't need to make changes quickly and something else - maybe Optimum - when I do. Or just look for something else.
Or transpose everything to one instrument and never change during a piece.
Karl
Post Edited (2015-02-26 18:07)
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-02-26 18:36
Karl:
Might there be a barrel you could find that could serve both your Bb and A such that it, rather than the mouthpiece barrel seperation point, could be where you do your torquing?
I admit to not knowing your setup. You may have entirely legitimate reasons why sharing a barrel would not work for you.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-02-26 19:53
Well, I have barrels that I like for each clarinet. If I started an active search I might be able to find a single barrel I could be happy with, but that seems like an expensive and effortful way to solve a ligature problem that can, if necessary, be solved much more easily simply by rejecting the ligature. I like the Versa, but I'm not so wedded to it (or any other ligature) that I'd want to build the rest of my setup around it.
Karl
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-03-05 18:31
By way of follow-up, FWIW to anyone else who has had this problem, I seem to have discovered a solution. I can move the mouthpiece without having the Versa slide around if I turn the instrument around and wrap my hand so that my fingers grip around the reed side of the mouthpiece instead of the side with the screw. It seems that the real problem is that, when you grip the large rise with the screw knob protruding out of it, you get very little grip on the mouthpiece itself. Turning the clarinet around and gripping across the flatter reed area gives me much more contact with the mouthpiece surface.
It isn't immediately intuitive to turn the instrument around before you take off the mouthpiece, but I should have thought of trying it sooner than I did. Maybe Rovner should include this hint in the instruction insert.
Karl
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