 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2015-02-23 06:46
Just got back from a wonderful weekend with the CA high school all-state ensembles.
There were 80-something clarinetists present, and I placed 10th in the blind re-audition, putting me in the 3rd clarinet section of the top group (if only I hadn't botched those couple of rhythms on the sight reading... ;-) ) Lincolnshire Posy by Grainger was on the program, which has some Eb alto clarinet solos. The conductor asked if any of us had any experience playing alto clarinet; nobody did, but I volunteered to play it, and they brought me a couple of instruments to try. Unfortunately the professional wooden Buffet alto was almost a half-step sharp (almost like a high-pitch instrument, though I think this was rather due to a major leak) so I had to play a plastic Vito.
Even though I was playing on a plastic instrument with a slightly chirp-prone mouthpiece, I found playing alto clarinet to be an overall fun experience. Why do people seem to have such an aversion to the instrument, and why does it seem to have fallen out of fashion in bands? My dad says there was a whole alto clarinet section back when he was in high school band, but I have yet to meet any fellow high schooler today who says their band has alto clarinetists. None auditioned for the CA all-state bands as far as I'm aware.
(You can listen to the Grainger here if you're interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vr3aWPAk-k My solos are at 4:20 and 14:43, though the 2nd one is a bit drowned out by the doubling piccolo flute.)
Post Edited (2015-02-23 06:48)
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Author: derf5585
Date: 2015-02-23 06:54
Here is what Wikipedia says about the alto
In the late 1940s, there was some discussion over whether the alto clarinet should be eliminated from the standard wind band.[12] Arguments used include its relatively low volume and that its part is often doubled by other instruments,[13] and the expense. Because of this, publishers of band music for elementary and junior high school players tend to leave parts out for alto clarinet. Mature bands utilizing more sophisticated arrangements quite often have a seat dedicated to alto clarinet, so in the majority of American high school and college bands,a complete family of clarinets is encountered in the modern wind band.
fsbsde@yahoo.com
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2015-02-23 07:11
Back in high school I use to play an old Bundy alto clarinet. Why? Well because I wanted to play something unusual and fun:)! Anyway when I auditioned for all state I didn't make it. When my band director used his connections to figure out exactly why I didn't make it he told me that the main reason was that the all state band simply didn't have any use for an alto clarinet player. After learning of this news I was so devistated that I sold my alto and bought a respectable bass, which is my main instrument to date.
Did I like to play alto clarinet? Yes!
Was it easier to carry an alto clarinet than it was to carry a bass clarinet on a school bus? Yes!!!!!!
Is there any chance of becoming a successful alto clarinet player? Not a chance
Nobody likes it but this is the way it is.
-Jdbassplayer
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2015-02-23 07:13
Of course there's no chance of actually pursuing a career in alto clarinet playing; I was just curious why it's become such an uncommon instrument in school bands. I suppose there just isn't much repertoire written for it.
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2015-02-23 07:47
maxopf wrote:
> Of course there's no chance of actually pursuing a career in
> alto clarinet playing; I was just curious why it's become such
> an uncommon instrument in school bands. I suppose there just
> isn't much repertoire written for it.
My guess is that it is because of the fact that the range of the alto clarinet is easily covered by the bass and soprano clarinets.
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Author: derf5585
Date: 2015-02-23 07:53
"My guess is that it is because of the fact that the range of the alto clarinet is easily covered by the bass and soprano clarinets."
Then why is the tenor sax popular?
The range of the tenor sax is easily covered by the alto and baritone sax.
fsbsde@yahoo.com
Post Edited (2015-02-23 07:54)
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2015-02-23 08:17
I can play Eb clarinet parts on Bb clarinet; this would be analogous to playing Eb Alto parts on Bb bass. But we still keep the Eefer around.
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2015-02-23 08:32
I suppose one could also make the same argument about the viola in the orchestra. A violin and a cello can cover everything a viola can, so why bother with them? The answer (in spite of a lot of viola jokes) is that violas do add something, and an orchestra wouldn't sound the same without them.
When I was in high school over 40 years ago, we did have one alto clarinet, but I'm not sure it really added much to the band. When school bands regularly used altos, band directors seldom had strong players playing them. Still, I think it would be very interesting to hear a band with two or three altos--strong players playing on good instruments.
I remember reading an article many years ago about the basset horn, and the author suggested that it would be an ideal band replacement for the alto clarinet.
I don't know if it's ever been tried, but it's an interesting thought.
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Author: ClaV
Date: 2015-02-23 16:52
clarinetguy wrote:
> I suppose one could also make the same argument about the viola
> in the orchestra. A violin and a cello can cover everything a
> viola can, so why bother with them? The answer (in spite of a
> lot of viola jokes) is that violas do add something, and an
> orchestra wouldn't sound the same without them.
Exactly, the main reason to use Eb alto clarinet is its unique tone colour (along the same lines as large-bore Bb clarinets sound differently).
The main deterrent for Eb alto clarinets, as I see it, is a vicious economics-manufacturing-popularity cycle. It is nearly-impossible to make a perfect clarinet, and very difficult to make a very good one. A lot of efforts/cost goes into a clarinet design. With not many users, simpler instruments are produced, which, in turn, causes them to be less used due to inferior tuning/sound (I witnessed professional clarinetists totally dismissing Eb alto as an inferior instrument).
The same goes for the basset horn, which is quite close in range and tone colour to Eb alto. The basset horn (similar to a basset clarinet), can be argued, survived largely because of Mozart. Otherwise, it is not used much.
I've seen how basset horns were rented to perform Mozart (once in a few years undertaking) and how challenging it was to play on those old instruments that were far from perfect adjustments.
Along these lines, I would love that basset clarinets will be more advocated and played along the passion of Mozart and Stadler. At least basset clarinets only require a custom lower joint.
Then, in another important part of that viscous cycle of popularity - more music will be composed for these clarinets - and hopefully some music impossible not to be played!
More music and more players are what every instrument needs!
Post Edited (2015-02-23 16:59)
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2015-02-23 17:47
Ten years ago we were joking in this forum about "the definition of nerds: people who own their own alto clarinets." Well, I've got my nerd credential and I love it! Kept my cheapskate credential when I bought it, too -- I found a pro-quality wooden 1979 Selmer for US$160 at a "junktiques" store in 1998.
I'm an amateur; my previous alto experience came in junior high school in 1961, when I asked to switch to bass clarinet. The director rolled his eyes and informed me that, "Girls don't play bass instruments." (Yes, I remember that advice every time I practice my bass sax or contra-alto clarinet . . . .) I switched back to soprano clarinet in high school orchestra, but I love the sound of an alto clarinet and I enjoy having one to practice. Far as I'm concerned anybody who thinks it's an inferior instrument can go squeal on a piccolo.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2015-02-23 18:17
ClaV, I think you're right about the "vicious economics-manufacturing-popularity cycle."
A number of years ago I had the opportunity to hear Marvin Kahn play his alto clarinet, and I must say it was a very nice concert. Kahn, who sadly passed away several years ago, wasn't very well-known, but he was a nice man and a very solid musician who had a real passion for the alto. http://static.record-eagle.com/2001/jul/13kahn.htm
Back in high school, I played in clarinet choirs for a couple summers at music camp. The director was the late Frank Sacci, a high school band director in Watertown, NY and a very strong advocate of clarinet choirs. Sacci also arranged a considerable amount of music for the clarinet choir.
Sacci liked alto clarinets, and considered them to be an important part of his clarinet ensembles. I remember chatting with him once about instrumentation, and I'll never forget something he said: "In a pinch you can get along without an
alto . . . " He went on to add that altos really should be included.
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Author: ClaV
Date: 2015-02-23 20:37
Very interesting story, Clarinetguy, thank you for the link.
The fate of Eb alto (as of any other instruments) rests in hands of those who play it, write or arrange music for it. The more clarinetists, more clarinet choirs - more hope for Eb alto, basset horn and basset clarinets to be enjoyed for their unique voices.
P.S. We got Eb alto for my son (just a simple worn-out Vito, sadly not played due to no demand; even his eefer is not utilized by his concert band...) and I told him the "nerd joke" that, as Leila mentioned, is popular on this forum. He replied: no, only those with basset horns would qualify
Post Edited (2015-02-23 20:38)
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Author: derf5585
Date: 2015-02-23 23:23
Basset Horn, Basset Hound. How are they related?
fsbsde@yahoo.com
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Author: ClaV
Date: 2015-02-23 23:32
derf5585 wrote:
> Basset Horn, Basset Hound. How are they related?
>
Basset in both of their names is "derived from the French word bas, meaning "low", with the attenuating suffix -et, together meaning "rather low"." (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/basset)
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Author: Ed
Date: 2015-02-23 23:52
Just remember that "friends don't let friends play alto clarinet"
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Author: derf5585
Date: 2015-02-24 00:03
Since all the bad feelings about an alto clarinet what do you feel about a conta-alto clarinet?
fsbsde@yahoo.com
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Author: Paula S
Date: 2015-02-24 00:53
I would never have even gone there if I hadn't started playing Eb soprano in a concert band. They had several very good first clarinettists and they had no alto player. So they suggested I try alto parts when there was no Eb soprano part and also headed up the 2nd clarinets. I took the band Noblet Artist Alto home and practiced.
I love it now. It has added a real richness to my chalumeau on my Bb and it really makes me use my ears to listen/ tune and think about tone production.
I got promoted to first clarinet as well after about 3 months so I am now spoilt for choice.
I think the alto has a really distinctive sound like a soulful whale. I am very fond of it.......... just call me a geek why don't you ;-)
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2015-02-24 00:57
How could any Clarinet way down that far in the Bass range be an Alto anything ? The Alto tonality belongs to the lower Treble Stave. (G.F.Eb.D)
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2015-02-24 01:11
It's called the Contra-alto (not to be confused with the contralto vocal range) because it is an octave lower than the alto clarinet (both pitched in Eb). The contra-bass clarinet is an octave below the bass clarinet (both in Bb).
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2015-02-24 05:20
Thanks Nellsonic, that kinda explains it somewhat.
However, I much prefer the more direct way of classifying tonalities.
For the lower range Base Clarinets I think of them as :-
Bb Tenor Clarinet ( ' Bb Bass ')
Eb Bass Clarinet ( ' Contra - Alto ')
Bb Bass Clarinet ( ' Contra - Bass ') (Double Bb)
(Eb Contra Bass Clarinet) (Double Eb). Is there such a thing ?
By thinking of the Base Clarinets in this way I have a far better visualization of their function in a score or when I hear them in a recording.
This classification would make the Eb Alto Clarinet the lowest of the Treble Clarinets. I think the Eb Alto Clarinet has a lovely individual sound when played skillfully on a well made instrument. The 'Viola' of the Clarinet family.
Skyfacer
Post Edited (2015-02-24 05:26)
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Author: derf5585
Date: 2015-02-24 05:29
I have always wondered why the bass clarinet was called the bass clarinet.
(It's all about the bass clarinet)
The baritone sex has almost the bottom range as the bass clarinet.
Baritone Clarinet anyone?
And the bass sax goes lower than the bass clarinet.
fsbsde@yahoo.com
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2015-02-24 05:43
Thanks for the link to that Utube video Maxopf . You beat me to the draw as I had just edited my post.
Wow, the sound of that lowest of the Clarinets ! You can actually hear the 'darkness' (silence) between the vibrations of the notes.
I also checked out the video that also came up concerning the new Contrabassoon. An entirely new design and an ingenious one at that. Did you see it ? What a gorgeous sexy looking wind instrument!
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Author: ClaV
Date: 2015-02-24 06:09
Barry Vincent wrote:
> I think the Eb Alto Clarinet has a lovely individual sound
> when played skillfully on a well made instrument.
> The 'Viola' of the Clarinet family.
Nice analogy!
I am thinking of a basset clarinet as closest to viola.
Speaking of clarinets and violas - what wonderful chamber music they make together (Mozart K.498, Schumann op. 132, Bruch op. 83)!
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2015-02-24 07:13
Tone aside, A clarinet is actually the closest in pitch to a viola (viola's lowest note is the concert C below the A clarinet's lowest concert C#.) Eb piccolo clarinet is closest to violin as both have concert G as their lowest note. Bb bass clarinet is closest to cello and BBb contrabass clarinet is closest to string bass.
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Author: derf5585
Date: 2015-02-24 07:21
And the a-flat clarinet lowest note is middle C
fsbsde@yahoo.com
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Author: ClaV
Date: 2015-02-24 07:31
and the basset clarinet, an A-clarinet with the extended keywork to a concert A
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2015-02-26 03:35
Some time ago I acquired a Selmer Paris Series 9 Alto clarinet of 1955 vintage, mainly from collector's interest. I admire it as very well made, especially the sophisticated double register mechanism, and like its special sound. Normally I play Oehler clarinets, but at the moment try to learn and use it as a replacement for Viola in Mozart's Kegelstatt trio and think it might fit there very well and is easy to transpose.
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2015-02-26 03:37
Attachment: Neu3.jpg (234k)
Some time ago I acquired a Selmer Paris Series 9 Alto clarinet of 1955 vintage, mainly out of collector's interest. I admire it as very well made, especially the sophisticated double register mechanism, and like its special sound. Normally I play Oehler clarinets, but at the moment try to learn and use it as a replacement for Viola in Mozart's Kegelstatt trio and think it might fit there very well and is easy to transpose.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-02-26 03:54
I bought a Yamaha alto clarinet off eBay from Greece for what I think was a good price (around £1500) and removed all traces of its intended marching band use, so it no longer has a lyre box or sling rings - instead it now has a floor spike and a LH Ab/Eb lever fitted to make it a concert instrument.
It also has a true double speaker mechanism as seen on pro level basses in that the speaker vents switch over when going from D-E in the upper register (with the link to RH3) and the lower vent also provides the throat Bb when played with the regular fingering.
I had a plastic Bundy alto as well, but this Yamaha is infinitely better.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2015-02-26 04:24
MichaelW: How is the transition from Oehler to Boehm? I imagine it must be difficult switching from one to the other.
Chris P: The instrument I was borrowing at all-state had the double-speaker mechanism too, which was helpful. No floor peg though... Had to use a neck strap.
I wish the Buffet had been in better shape. It looked like a really nice instrument - wooden body, LH Eb/Ab key, double speaker mechanism, etc etc but it was oddly out of tune. It was like a clarinet in E natural - maybe a HP instrument?
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