The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Ben Shaffer
Date: 2015-02-22 22:18
Well, I'm getting a pretty nice Tax Refund this year.
I could discreetly buy a new Ridenour Lyrique 576BC...
Interestingly the amount to be refunded is the same as the amount needed for such a purchase....
I wonder if I should take that as a sign ?
I've got a Blackwood Normandy 4 and have a nice MP, ligature and Van Doren Reeds and you know it sounds pretty nice, no complaints.
So my question is... would the Lyrique sound that much better and play that much easier or would I get Lyrique and realize it sounds and plays no better than the Normandy? :(
I do like the idea of not having to worry about cracks and as I understand it, the Lyrique weighs less than most Blackwood Horns
Just thinkin.....
Post Edited (2015-02-22 22:21)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-02-23 00:31
Ben
I won't condone the clandestine purchase of something others might have rightful say (e.g. a spouse) to a vote on.
Instead let me talk gear. I have limited experience with the brand of clarinet you currently own, and don't know its state of repair, so its difficult for me to compare a new Ridenour clarinet to yours.
What I can do is comment on the Ridenour, and talk about sound.
Ben, (sigh) as you probably know, sound comes from within. Things like mouthpieces can certainly modify that sound somewhat, and I won't kid you, if your existing clarinet's on its last legs..yes, a new Ridenour will sound better, or perhaps I should better say, a new Ridenour will "work," ergo it will sound better.
If you want to include intonation as a part of sound, Tom Ridenour has done great work getting his clarinets to approach and maintain proper tune when proper embouchure is applied to them. Their hard rubber construction not only, as you mention, takes cracks "off the table," but the instrument is less affected by the ambient weather conditions than would be one made of wood, helping it remain in tune.
I'd like to say that, and by no means do I mean this as a criticism, Ridenour clarinet's "fight back." A Ridenour clarinet will "tell" you, "this is how much air I take buddy, blowing harder won't change things." This is how Tom Ridenour designs clarinets, and thinks they should be made: with an ability to hold pitch, shape and color in focus.
The late and great Harold Wright talked of clarinet's "blowing out." It's somewhat of a nebulous term we've all come to share some common agreement on what it is, all while developing our own spins on it, I think. To my mind I think it describes a clarinet that just offers too little resistance as a result of too many years of play.
Well long story short, I believe if Wright sat in front of a Ridenour and played, if nothing else, he'd say, "now this 'horn' is definitely not blown out."
(Yes purists, a clarinet's not a horn...but you see those weren't my words, just my "character's" words )
If Tom's reading this I also suspect that prior sentiment just made him proud, given Tom's respect for Buddy Wright.
Ben, you really can have your cake on eat it too. You can buy on trial and work out financing with Ted. I, and others as well,. could talk until we were blue in the face about its characteristics, but only you can determine if it fits you.
Ignore all naysayers who say hard rubber clarinets don't sound as nice as wood. It's nonsense.
Good luck.
Oh, and you know what makes a clarinet sound really great?...a smiling spouse at the listening end of it who knows you bought the instrument with their okay.
That may not be your situation...just sayin.
(no affiliation with Ridenour, no tendency (I don't think) to support something just because I own it: I've bought my share of junk.)
Post Edited (2015-02-23 01:05)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: NB
Date: 2015-02-23 02:24
Interesting that so far with all wood clarinets, even intermediate ones, I tried,
I was able to produce a better more dense sound than with Lyrique, which I tried once in the past (the "Libertas").
So basically I could say "Ignore those who says that a hard rubber clarinet works
better than a working intermediate wood clarinet".
Instead I say, judge yourself.
They offer a trial period, so use it.
But have no prejudice when checking these two against each other.
Don't think of ANY Bboard opinions on that when playing it.
Ask yourself: is it worth it?
For me it wasn't.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-02-23 02:38
NB, I own both, disagree, and totally respect your point of view.
What we can both agree upon apparently, is the need for the end consumer to decide.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony F
Date: 2015-02-23 03:34
I've restored several Normandy 4's, and properly set up and with the right mouthpiece they can play surprisingly well. It may be that your Normandy just needs some TLC to bring it back to life. The Ridenour clarinet will offer better tuning.
Tony F.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2015-02-23 03:38
Ben -
You'll get more bang for the buck by getting a matched mouthpiece and barrel from Clark Fobes, Greg Smith, Walter Grabner, or, if the refund is BIG, Morrie Backun.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ben Shaffer
Date: 2015-02-23 04:21
Hey Guys,
Many thanks for all the sagely advice.
Agreed after all is said and done it really comes done to having both Clarinets in my hands and test driving.
As I mentioned my Normandy is actually a very nice playing and sounding Clarinet. Now if the Normandy was in need of an overhaul, which its not I would be very motivated to really look into the Lyrique, but I can't deny I'm thinking about it, I mean who isn't interested in a better sounding Horn, regardless of what your current Horn sounds like.
I did mention to my wife tonight that I was interested in maybe using the Tax Refund to get a new, better Clarinet and I was met with a stare, but not with what she has said in the past about my purchases... which is go ahead and buy it if it makes you happy.....so that may be my answer right there ! Still thinking... time will tell...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: TomS
Date: 2015-02-23 04:57
What's a tax refund? No new clarinets headed to my house until after my yard sale.
I also vote for the Lyrique 576. The Normandy and Ridenour are different in acoustic design ... buy the Lyrique, use it for a month, and you will not be able to stop.
There are some new and interesting clarinets out, like the ones that Kessler Music handles ... might be pretty good ... I am curious, and maybe skeptical ... one problem is that they can't find good Blackwood to use in $15,000.00 clarinets, let alone $500.00 clarinets.
I just don't understand all this stuff with wood quality and availability ... I heard 40 years ago: "We are just about out of wood!" Maybe climate change is not as certain, either ...
Tom
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ursa
Date: 2015-02-24 00:55
Ben, owning both a Normandy with a carefully matched Backun MoBa grenadilla barrel and a Ridenour 576BC, I can say this: Depending on the kind of playing you do, you could very well find that one is not a complete substitute for the other.
For general concert band and orchestral use, In the practice room and when playing duets and chamber music, the Ridenour will delight you with its ergonomics, impeccable regulation, even response, and superb tuning.
In a pit orchestra, jazz band, or stage band--especially one with an overmanned brass section--you're going to wish you'd brought your Normandy. These are among the best I've played for getting the air through and the sound out while maintaining a very decent tone in situations when you're struggling to be heard--situations where the Ridenour just doesn't have the guts to cut through.
Post Edited (2015-02-24 01:00)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ClaV
Date: 2015-02-24 01:07
Wood may not be an ideal material for clarinets, neither is the hard rubber. Hard rubber may be acoustically superior, but it is not a natural material, as Tom Ridenour advocates. My main personal antipathies with the hard rubber is its discolouration andsulfur-related smell - a situation familiar to most with the old hard rubber mouthpieces. Plus, no silver keys with the hard rubber.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: NB
Date: 2015-02-24 01:58
My main concern with the hard rubber
is that when I play it at louder dynamics it starts lacking color in the sound.
Yes, it is certainly OK when playing p or pp. But when I play f or ff there appears
to be a "wall" which I cannot go through. Playing loud on a hard rubber clarinet
adds some unpleasant "sandy-noisy" color to the main sound.
Wood allows greater resonance, not missing as many colors as hard rubber misses.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: TomS
Date: 2015-02-24 03:45
Well ... I suspect that really and truly there are just moderate differences in sound between ABS plastic, wood and hard rubber. Some difference, for sure, not really daylight and dark. But, enough to be important.
I believe that if you had several clarinets with the same design but various materials, most blinded players would select hard rubber as the nicest sound ... it's because a softer material like hard rubber (and some softer hardwoods, like Rosewood) selectively attenuate some of the high overtones and removes the edge and brightness. There may be more physics going on as well, to account for the nice timbre ... Much of the differences that I think people hear is due to the acoustic design, not so much the material.
For example, I have a Rideonour Lyrique Libertas and a Lyrique Speranza (similar in design to the RCP-576), both in hard rubber, both play very well. The blow with different resistance and sound very different. Which do I like the best? It depends on what I am playing. I plan on acquiring an RCP-576BC because the Speranza was a student clarinet with fewer tweaks and refinements, but a great design and a wonderful value.
If your Normandy is in basically good shape, I'd consider getting it expertly overhauled and a fresh MP, ligature and barrel. You'd have money left over for a shoe box full of new reeds!
Tom
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: NB
Date: 2015-02-24 03:52
> and removes the edge and brightness
OK, this is, probably, why it kills the projection in the end.
One needs some edge in the sound to project well.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: TomS
Date: 2015-02-24 06:44
It's been my experience that often this typical type of "edge and brightness" can be most unpleasant, even at long distances.
With the instrument design and material encouraging a naturally warm and resonant sound, you now are free to use use a lighter, more responsive MP and reed, which adds/restores sweetness, ping and projection (and without the often disagreeable edge) and has the added benefit of having better articulation and agility. The resultant is a more pleasant type of projection and center to the tone.
Players that have well adapted their setups for softer hardwoods and hard rubber are heard as well in the last row as Blackwood players.
Just my three cents worth of opinion ...
I have my flack jacket and helmet on ...
Tom
Post Edited (2015-02-24 21:52)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony F
Date: 2015-02-24 06:52
I have B & H Imperials and Emperors in both wood and hard rubber. In both cases I far prefer the sound of the hard rubber instruments.
Tony F.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
|