 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: yaseungkim
Date: 2015-02-19 00:32
What brand tuning rings do most people use and recommend.
1. For r13 Bb
2. For yamaha csv-a
Thanks in advance for suggesting.
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-02-19 01:13
Yaseungkim sir, no joke:
While in no way do I mean to be disparaging towards musical instrument makers tuning rings, I once bought a box of rubber rings in the plumbing aisle of a big box store, for not much more than the big 3 (Weiner, Muncy, WWBW) charge for a couple of tuning rings. It has 100s of rings, many too small or big to use on my clarinet (but perfect for other things). Of the ones that fit my clarinet tenons, there were a dozen at least in every size, and they worked just fine compared to the tuning rings I purchased from Weiner.
YMMV: your mileage might vary, and I certainly can't see harm coming from matching tuning rings brand with instrument maker.
Moral: (speaking literally and in metaphor) sometimes a Rico Humidity pack is just a Boveda Humidity Pack relabled. And sometimes a music manufacture's product is a highly researched and tested item not to be substituted for a generic.
When it comes to tuning rings, I' tend towards the side of the 1st half of the moral. Others who I respect will disagree here.
Good luck.
Post Edited (2015-02-19 01:16)
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Author: ClaV
Date: 2015-02-19 01:45
No tuning rings will match the diameter and taper of your specific clarinet barrels, so the quest for the perfect solution is to have a couple of different matching barrels.
P.S. and there would come a wisdom of selecting A and B with the same bore...
Post Edited (2015-02-19 01:54)
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Author: yaseungkim
Date: 2015-02-19 02:08
When I was at the Yamaha Atelier Service, the tech had those little metal rings (like a black painted nickel with holes in them) and was putting them between the joints as well as the barrel and the joint, and it never occurred to me to ask about it, except I knew he was trying to tune the clarinet. I should've asked him where I can get those...
Do you use those tuning rings often or just leave your clarinet pulled without having any solid substance to maintain the spacing. Do you use them in performance settings? I never had the pleasure of witnessing someone use something like this while playing music, but what are the draw backs for using them as oppose to... not using them, if any.
If the hole on the ring were smaller than your bore size, I would suspect that it may change the tone... and if the outer circumference was smaller than the joint/barrel opening, then the ring might have opportunity to slide down and now you may have partially blocking ring. Boy, too many concerns here probably not worth the effort of going to home depot.
I am wondering if anybody already measured the exact dimensions or if it is actually improving your sound.
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2015-02-19 02:10
So what's wrong with the old and very practical way of just using the centers of unwanted CDs. They are the ideal thickness, and the center hole is just about the perfect diameter. You just cut them down to the internal size of the tenons. I use them with no problems. Just for fun , I'ved stack three of these into one of my barrels making it 3 mm longer with no negative effect. I first learnt of this approach by Phil of 'Clarinet Pages.
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Author: yaseungkim
Date: 2015-02-19 02:13
Ed, thanks for sharing the URL link.
The website you provided re-affirms that I wasn't crazy when I said my son almost never squeaks except when his barrel is pulled... all the more reason to get a longer barrel for tuning purpose or get a tuning ring.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2015-02-19 02:30
CDs have a thickness of 1.2 mm, I think ...
Also, if you buy spindles of CDs (without cases) they often have little plastic spacers or washers that have the same size hole as the CDs ...
Also, in regards to Fobes tuning rings, they look like they don't go in the tenon socket, looks like they go over the tenon ... center hole looks too big ... ! Am I wrong?
I like tuning rings for a number of reasons ... I do think that some that are rubbery or rubber coated might also help seal the joint and provide the proper spacing for tuning ...
Tom
Post Edited (2015-02-19 02:39)
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Author: ClaV
Date: 2015-02-19 02:39
I could not notice a significant difference with a tuner or otherwise when using (or not) tuning rings under 1.5 mm (those rings came with one of our Accubore barrels); clarion would be to watch out for distortions upon pulling a barrel.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2015-02-19 02:46
I have tried tuning rings many times and never noticed them to have any effect on anything, other than my annoyance level when they fall out when I'm disassembling the instrument.
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Author: yaseungkim
Date: 2015-02-19 02:46
ClaV: P.S. and there would come a wisdom of selecting A and B with the same bore...
When we got the r13 in Bb, my son's teacher picked it out for my son... when my son wanted to go to competitions and play Mozart, we sadly fired the old man. So, there was nobody to help us out, and I did not want to buy an r13 in key of A without knowing what to look for when choosing a clarinet. So, we went with Yamaha knowing that Yamaha (made in Japan) is reliable and of high quality because it is made in Japan, and for no other reason.
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Author: ClaV
Date: 2015-02-19 02:57
yaseungkim wrote:
> When we got the r13 in Bb, my son's teacher picked it out for
> my son... when my son wanted to go to competitions and play
> Mozart, we sadly fired the old man. So, there was nobody to
> help us out, and I did not want to buy an r13 in key of A
> without knowing what to look for when choosing a clarinet. So,
> we went with Yamaha knowing that Yamaha (made in Japan) is
> reliable and of high quality because it is made in Japan, and
> for no other reason.
I never had experience with Yamaha csv-a, but I heard only great things about it.
I am not even sure if Buffet A and B are of the same bore (there are different acoustic designs), I only know some Leblancs are.
It just makes ir easier for barrel interchangeability (and I only came to this "wisdom" in retrospective.)
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Author: ClaV
Date: 2015-02-19 03:00
Yaseungkim, I can only add if you plan to pursue clarinet with your son devotedly, at least two barrels (typically different by 2 mm) is a very good idea.
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Author: yaseungkim
Date: 2015-02-19 03:12
Thank you for suggesting. We made appointment with a local music store for my son to try out some of the moba barrels and fatboy this weekend.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2015-02-19 03:13
I have experienced a difference in response and focus by using the thinnest tuning ring. I believe that it takes up a small gap where my barrel socket is a fraction longer than the tenon.
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Author: ClaV
Date: 2015-02-19 04:10
MoBa and Fatboys are very nice barrels!
Do not discount Traditionals, if the store has them. The bore dimensions matter a bit more than shape and even material.
Definitely try as many as you can - Backun makes barrels for both A and B clarinets, so the barrel size and taper vary to accommodate slightly different bores and different preferences for the sound - with the good available selection, this variation works very well to get a nice match. Your son should hear/discern what he likes (a tuner may be still a good idea for you to be in control over all the numbers:) ).
It may be also a good idea to arrange to take your best candidates home - to make sure that their will perform the same when acclimatized to the same humidity as your clarinet. The wood changes quite a bit, and cocobolo more so than grenadilla. It can take 2-3 days if the store has different humidity. That, I believe, is the main culprit behind "my favourite barrel started to play differently".
Have a great fun - and hope you will see many smiles on your son's face
Post Edited (2015-02-19 04:18)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2015-02-19 05:14
ClaV wrote:
> Definitely try as many as you can - Backun makes barrels for
> both A and B clarinets,
Backun does not make separate barrels for Bb and A clarinet.
His barrels are interchangeable.
...GBK
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Author: ClaV
Date: 2015-02-19 05:19
>
> Backun does not make separate barrels for Bb and A clarinet.
> His barrels are interchangeable.
>
> ...GBK
>
Sorry, that what I meant, and since such barrels should fit both A and B, there is a range of bores and tapers. The other factor to match is the mouthpiece bore.
P.S. I have limited experience with A clarinets, but I believe that "interchangeability" has its limits.
Post Edited (2015-02-19 05:21)
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Author: Jamnik
Date: 2015-02-19 12:14
I've made tuning rings out of garden hose washers. They usually fit snug in the barrel and are easier to trim than CD centers. For the long run I would buy a longer barrel. Just make sure the top and bottom bore size of the barrel you buy matches the original style barrel diameters or it may cause some tuning issues. You can check this easily with a Crayola brand marker. The cap end is more narrow than the bottom so you can drop the marker into each end of the barrel and notice how far it drops before stopping and compare the findings with the original barrel.
Jamnik
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Author: yaseungkim
Date: 2015-02-19 20:03
The bore diameter on Yamaha CSV-A appears to be 14.65mm (in Yamaha publications), and Buffet r13 has bore diameter of 14.64mm in some publications and different measurements in others.
What I don't have is Backun bore diameter, I will have to contact Backun and find out their specifications. If the barrel has smaller diameter than then the clarinet, that wouldn't be good (and bigger is probably not good either)... you'd want to match them as exactly as possible, I would think.
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-02-19 21:52
Yaseungkim:
Step 1: does your son have a tuning problem, particularly in his being almost consistently off key on most notes, either all sharp or all flat?
Regardless, have him follow this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYx3pj0L790
Step 2: If he's sharp, then pull out the sections as Tom says above in the video.
Step 3: Is he playing fine (not perfectly in tune) now? If so, stop.
Step 4: Has something been compromised in sound as a result of pulling out on the joints? If so try a tuning ring to help to know where to put the joints next time***, and for possibly making a better seal on the clarinet.
Do so by buying something akin to a rubber washer with some elasticity, slightly smaller than 14.64mm, done.
If that doesn't work, please go buy your tuning rings, but don't hold your breath that they'll do much better for you.
Sir, you would be amazed where some musical products come from. The now discontinued Rico Reed Vault: http://www.pro-music-news.com/html/11/e70113ri.htm is nothing more than a Lock & Lock Brand 1.5 cup container
http://www.amazon.com/Lock-1-5-Cups-Removable-Trays/dp/B0028LT9DI
(This is not disparaging towards Rico. Good for them they found a product to repurpose for reed storage and sell. It's an excellent container to keep reeds humdity controlled in. Yikes: wait until we cover that one with you.)
I'd love to know where Buffet and Yamaha get their rings from. I'll guess it's from vendors outside the music industry who sell 10,000 at a time, that then sell for 12X to us, what these clarinet makers paid for them.
=========
40 years of experience: sir, IMHO you are killing a fly with a baseball bat with tuning ring makes and sizes. Look at things people have suggested, plumber's rubber rings, garden hose washers, gear from CD boxes.
Clarinet tuning is a compromise, never perfect, because a clarinet is not accoustically perfect by sheer design. And for all the spot on tuning we could even affect in a perfect world, we always deal with musical temperament (the number of accoustical cents http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cent_(music) between notes, and our need to adjust to this with play; for to tune to one of these notes through instrument adjustment (as opposed to embouchure) is to compromise the other.
A professional symphonic band I play with is always flat. We clarinets shake our heads, pull out our barrels and play, nobody uses a tuning ring. We take our note from the oboe, as is custom, because the oboe is not an instrument for which tuning adjustments can easily be made. And life is good.
Yes, a longer barrel (try Buffet, including Moening and Chadash first, not Backun, simply because you're playing a Buffet) might help, but again, too much adjustment so high on the clarinet can throw the throat tones e.g. ![[A4]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/a4.gif) and ![[Bb4]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/bb4.gif) off too much relative to other notes voiced through tone holes further down the instrument.
Sir: the Moening and Chadash barrel designs are considered Buffet barrels per se. (Someone will disagree with me on that with good arguments, but agree they are closer to Buffet barrels than other 3rd party manufacturer's wares.)
(Clarrification: Morrie makes great barrels. But you're son's Bb's a Buffet and he is 12. Rule out the brand barrels first. (Now here's an example where brand loyality might be more important, as opposed to tuning rings.) Yes, plenty of people play Backun barrels on non-Backun instruments. I still advocate you stay within the lines first on barrels for this youngster.
Yaseungkim, I really am on your side. The late and great Kal Opperman, a famous clarinet teacher, is remembered for pointing at how precious time is to a clarinet player http://www.kalmenopperman.com/.
I am trying to honor that with suggestions I give to you on where to have your son spend that time.
*** clarinetists never truly know where to put the joints next time. The people we play with and need to be in tune with, the temperature, the humidity, the nuances of the reed and our own mechanics make that impossible.
Post Edited (2015-02-19 21:53)
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Author: yaseungkim
Date: 2015-02-19 23:01
Whiteplainsdave: Step 1: does your son have a tuning problem, particularly in his being almost consistently off key on most notes, either all sharp or all flat?
At my son's last recital, the music director quipped, your clarinet sound a bit flat compared to the piano on concert F, do you want to tune it again... and she looked at my son's teacher, and my son's teacher says, he will have to play as is. I know the barrel was pushed in all the way because I assembled it. Like what Ricardo Morales says, the concertmaster doesn't care if your clarinet is in perfect tune, it has to be in tune with the piano you are auditioning. Otherwise, the jury will hear you being off... This is what Ricardo says, and I will take this as a gospel. Why, might you ask? Ricardo is the best there is in my opinion when it comes to clarinet. He sits on the big5, he was offered job with NY Phil and he turned it down to stay in philly. If he wasn't among one of the best, he wouldn't be with the big5.
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Author: ClaV
Date: 2015-02-19 23:22
Author: yaseungkim (66.236.205.---)
Date: 2015-02-19 20:03
>The bore diameter on Yamaha CSV-A appears to be 14.65mm (in Yamaha >publications), and Buffet r13 has bore diameter of 14.64mm in some >publications and different measurements in others.
>What I don't have is Backun bore diameter, I will have to contact Backun and >find out their specifications. If the barrel has smaller diameter than then the >clarinet, that wouldn't be good (and bigger is probably not good either)... >you'd want to match them as exactly as possible, I would think.
I can try to offer you a brief perspective (within my limited knowledge but some experience) on barrels.
In a very simple picture, a barrel justs connects a mouthpiece with a clarinet upper joint. The upper joint bore diameter is 14.65 (give or take about 0.02 mm for manufacturer tolerance, wood swelling and contraction, etc) for Buffet, Yamaha and Leblanc (at least Opus/Concerto design). The mouthpiece bore - also a crucial factor to consider - typically ranges around 14.6-14.7 mm at least for those mouthpieces made for Buffet/R13, which is definitely Vandoren. I've just remeasured our M13Lyre and M15 to confirm. Older mouthpieces (if you ever venture into them) may have different, typically larger bores.
Given the same bore diameters of mouthpieces and upper joints, it is just so logical to make a barrel as a perfect cylindrical tube to connect the mouthpiece with the clarinet, that is just made of different lengths for tuning.
In fact, that is some commonly used design of most older professional clarinets (say 1950-ies to 1970-ies), some modern professional clarinets (which do offer special barrels) and most of student clarinets.
Then, it was noticed that making some different tapers in the barrel often improves sound, helps to find right resistance, and helps with some tuning problems (with the latter I have least experience).
In this regard, a most typical inverse taper barrel bore is from ca. 14.65 mm (at the mouthpiece) to 14.40-14.45 mm (at the bore). There can be different tapers/slopes. So there is some mismatch between an exit bore of the barrel and the upper joint, it may help to simplistically think about it being similar to R13 poly-cylindrical design.
In any case, the fact is that inverse bore modifies the sound characteristics and, importantly, provides different resistance.
Then to make it shorter - the choice of the "right best" barrel is for a specific clarinet, specific mouthpiece/reed combination and, most importantly, for the clarinetist.
That is why, in my opinion, it is a good idea to try as many barrels as you can to see what would work the best for your son in terms of ease of playing and sound colours that he may prefer, while getting the barrel of the right size for the tuning purposes.
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Author: yaseungkim
Date: 2015-02-19 23:36
@ClaV, I appreciate your thoughtful insight and taking the time out to provide your comments. I've read every line you posted, and comments like yours is what keeps me coming back to the bboard.
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Author: Dibbs
Date: 2015-02-20 02:04
Tuning rings won't help if he's flat.
Why is he flat if he has perfect pitch anyway?
yaseungkim wrote
> At my son's last recital, the music director quipped, your
> clarinet sound a bit flat compared to the piano on concert F
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Author: yaseungkim
Date: 2015-02-20 02:22
Dibbs, his clarinet was perfectly in pitch against a tuner. Relative to the piano at the recital room his clarinet was flat. At least this is how I understood it... is this possible ? And I know the barrel was pushed in all the way, but I am not a musician, nor do I play clarinet so I have no idea.
I could never tell if anyone is out of tune or not.
Post Edited (2015-02-20 02:57)
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Author: ClaV
Date: 2015-02-20 03:29
Yaseungkim, thank you. I am happy to share my limited expereince with you.
I second Gunthos in supporting your efforts. As I've mentioned I actually joined this forum drawn by your enthusiasm.
So I really hope you son have a great experience with clarinet and kids like him serve as great competitors (in a right sense) to others, setting great standards.
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-02-20 09:34
I'm lost.
There's no record of your son being sharp, right? At best he was in tune, at worst he was flat, and that was maybe, and relative to another instrument (a piano)
So there was no need to separate any of his clarinet's joints as that would have made the instrument flatter and exaserbated the problem, right?
And without need to seperate the joints, away went need for the tuning rings right? As they're only needed to sometimes fill the gap of seperated joints right.
So why the interest in tuning rings?
Answering: because I didn't understand what tuning rings do or how they work: okay.
Answering: A short quip about another situation where he was sharp: okay.
Answering: Because I was interested in them, still okay.
Defensive posture: not okay.
Dibbs: Why is he flat if he has perfect pitch anyway?
Perfect pitch deals with one's ability to recall notes from memory (for intents and purposes a capella, i.e. to sing them alone) without having to hear them first, and knowing innately, having heard others product said notes (irrespective of how: voice, instrument) if they are out of key. It speaks nothing of the ability to have the person with perfect pitch then be able to produce those same tones on a musical instrument in perfect accoustical pitch, only to know they are off if they in fact are.
Post Edited (2015-02-20 09:41)
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Author: Dibbs
Date: 2015-02-20 12:17
Yes, a piano can go slightly sharp in the summer when the higher humidity indoors causes the soundboard wood to swell.
:
> Dibbs, his clarinet was perfectly in pitch against a tuner.
> Relative to the piano at the recital room his clarinet was
> flat. At least this is how I understood it... is this possible
> ? And I know the barrel was pushed in all the way, but I am
> not a musician, nor do I play clarinet so I have no idea.
>
> I could never tell if anyone is out of tune or not.
>
>
> Post Edited (2015-02-20 02:57)
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Author: yaseungkim
Date: 2015-02-20 20:16
My son's clarinet is usually a bit sharp when it is not in tune, and my son usually pulls the barrel about 1 or 2 mm to get it in tune.
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-02-20 20:48
and so in the times, once he's in tune, that people have reported him, at the very worst, maybe flat, as you report....
worse can scenario, he pushes that barrel in a tad...(that's, if you don't realize, how we can raise pitch on the clarinet)
====
(Posters note: if that seems patronizing, the poster got mad the other day when I didn't include in a conversation with those in the know, that he just emerged in, that clarinetists often carry multiple barrels with them.)
====
(we're talking miliimeters here--this is nothing)
this leads you to shop for barrels because......?
Tuning rings, barrels? Is it possible your shopping for gear that isn't even needed?
Wait, I think I know the rebuttal here. "My son won't play his wood clarinet if he's out of tune." (Your words.)
My answer: so let him not play. The clarinet doesn't tune perfectly. If he can't make peace with imperfection, this is the wrong instrument for him: I don't care how good you report him to be at it.
yaseungkim: you talk of Han Kim. Here's Kim at 12 doing Messager's Solo De Concurs. It's amazing for a 12 year old, but its not amazing period. There are tons of places where he is, yes, with his Tosca, pitchy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALMnEUkkKNY
(Poster's 2nd note: understanding the nature of this posters question's you will come to realize that my seeming terseness if a necessary part of trouble shooting with him how things work. He is ignorant, and that is not a crime. Sadly, he's also resistant to being told he's wrong, when he is, and that's tough.)
Post Edited (2015-02-20 20:50)
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Author: yaseungkim
Date: 2015-02-20 20:56
whiteplainsdave, I will stop reading your postings if you can't control yourself by calling someone is ignorant or whatever else.
Also, since you dismissed Han Kim performance as "not amazing period," please post your own video of the same score and explain to me why and how your performance is better. (I would like it to be similar format as a master class video) and let me be the judge, talk is cheap. I will be impressed and we will go from there once you post your video. Until you did that, I will ignore your posting from here on out.
Post Edited (2015-02-20 21:04)
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Author: Jamnik
Date: 2015-02-20 21:42
Ladies and gentlemen of the forum. Let me first say that I have learned a lot about the clarinet from reading posts here over the past few years as well as reading and talking in person to a variety of people in person that have been well involved with clarinets for some time. It wasn't until recently that I actually posted. I think everyone here contributes to some degree on ideas and techniques that work best for them and sometimes we as people need others to objectively critique us when we get over involved and forget the obvious or basic principles. That being said, there has been a small number of people taking shots at each other lately. I have rather thick skin and I consider myself grateful to get answers to issues I post. If I disagree with a reply I receive I don't go high and to the right. There are very few absolutes about the clarinet. Most members understand this. How about we get back to the reason this group was originally intended and those that want to bite the proverbial hands that feed them should consider that the advice given here is absolutely free of charge!
Respectfully
Jamnik
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-02-20 22:46
You see ignorance as an insult. It's not. It's neither an insult nor a complement.
Let me see if I can put this in a sentence for you so you can better understand. I assure you, this is fact, not insult, and not condescention, you'll just likely see it as put down because you really don't understand the meaning of the word ignorant. Ready:
"You're ignorance on the definition of the word 'ignorant' leads you to equate it with stupidity, which it need not be related to."
I am ignorant on Mesopotamian faming rituals. It's not a crime. I'm pretty sure I could learn them, at least the basics, hence I am not stupid, just, at this moment of time, ignorant with respect to such rituals.
(I by the way am not a genuis either, and I make mistakes: but not here, not now.)
I would argue that if I couldn't achieve even a basic understand of such customs that I'd be ignorant and stupid too. But they're independent ideas: ignorant and stupid that is.
(My example does not in any way seek to lay comment on Mesopotamia, good or bad: it's just an example.)
Stupid, which I have never called you (not yet), is someone who cannot learn, which can arise from various factors, intelligence related or not.
Stupid people are ignorant. The converse is not necessarily true.
Don't get me wrong, I am on the verge of calling you stupid, and not because I think your dumb (as in IQ points), but because IMHO your problems with being corrected, even when done in a helpful capacity, get in the way of you being educated, at least from me.
And not being able to be educated is a form of stupidity, even if its not intelligence based.
So, it can correctly be said that you are indeed stupid with respect to my solid guidance to you.
===
Now, lets talk about Han Kim.
I'll say it again, and you likely still won't get it. Han Kim did a brilliant job on that video considering he was 12 when he did it. But ironically, it is as a result of your ignorance I suspect (there's that word again) of what constitutes a virtuosic performance of same (age independent), that leads you to not understand that by no means was it amazing period, which would fairly rate the performance against all other players who have tackled this piece, at all ages, locales, and points in time.
Professional artists, who it is reasonable for me to include when talking of "amazing period," would make that performance seem childish. That is not an insult to Mr. Kim or you, just a fact.
But who am I kidding. I'm talking to a man who probably doesn't understand what "amazing period," means in a musical context. Let me try to educate you (wish me luck.)
This is an amazing performance of the piece, just so you know the difference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk2T6c-H91Q
Yep, Bedenko's one of those brilliant Eastern Bloc players Mr. Charette referred to.
Could I do as well at age 12, no way. Could I do better now, in my 50s, than Kim then, absolutely, (even better in my 20s) as sure as that's an irrelevancy you don't see, that I am not going to indulge you with a video of. Better still, "you want to be the judge?"
Could I do better than Bedenko: I strongly suspect never.
You admit to knowing next to nothing about clarinet and music, (your words), but you want to be the judge of my performance? Will I get credit in your well thought out and informed decision rubric for aligning the clarinet labels like you do when you (wait for it) assemble your 12 year old's clarinet? Why?
What is wrong with you or him that you assemble his clarinet? I don't want to be disrespectful, maybe he has a physical challenge (no joke). But I have to figure if he can play the instument, that he can put it together.
It is amazing how you don't "get" how nothing about my accurate objective assessment of Kim is either enhanced or detracted by my level of play. If tomorrow, G-d forbid, I should have a car accident that prevents me from playing again, or too much arthritis, do you think my knowledge goes away with that?
So you think he did an amazing job period? You never said that but you implied it. Shall we base your assessment in direct correlation to YOUR clarinet skills, of which you've admitted to having none?
If Kim was here himself he would agree with me that others have done a better job on this the he did at 12 (that's what amazing "period" means, amazing with no qualifications placed on the title). Lord knows there's not only no shame in that confession, but that Kim has an enormous amount to be proud of. For the record, I admire him for his accomplishments. They took a lot of hard work (not equipment swapping.)
It just wasn't an amazing performance as amazing performances go, and shown to you by the way, (I really don't think you understand why despite my explaining to you) to get you (and maybe your sin) to stop worrying so much about the pitch of your son's play.
I stand behind this, which is not to say that I think Kim anything but a terrific player.
But, okay, you don't believe me. Let me put the question out there.
Those reading this, who thinks they've seen better performances of this piece on Youtube? Bar no other player, as "amazing period," opens up anyone here.
And let me guess, when people chime in, it's because we're all conspiring against you right?
You are a moron if you will be impressed of my accumen on the subject matter based on my or someone else's performance. Russianoff was consider one of the leading clarinet teachers to follow in Bellison's steps in bringing the French school to America. His students today read like a who's who of clarinet playing and education. And yet, his playing, while actually excellent, was never what he was known for.
I would also love to be a fly on the wall to go back in time and have your son take lessons with him (worse Opperman), who at the first sign of your outburst, would have kicked you out of their respective NY apartments for the duration of the lesson, and made your kid cry and dismissed him from their rosters if they told him to play a piece with music in front of him, and he said no.
Tell you what. Just for giggles, if I do post myself playing Messager's Solo de Concurs, and members (not you) vote on who did it better, me today, or Kim at 12, and I win, will you agree to never post here again?
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Messrs. Charette and Kantor, have you guidance to offer here? Have I been unfair to this man, not given him patience upon his arrival here and even after being pressed by him multiple times. Have I not led him to materials on and off the bboard to support a point?
yaseungkim, you think you've been treated unfairly.
Please, I beg of you. Introduce yourself to a top teacher.
I'll give you 5 minutes with him/her (or any top teacher) before he or she (and I wouldn't blame him) gets a read on you and gives a "it's my way or the highway," not even allowing you to sit in on lessons.
Yeah...go trying to change a mouthpiece on one of them, given your level of knowledge on the matter, without at least discussing it with them first. Better, tell him you did it to accomodate a reed, rather than change the reed to accomodate a mouthpiece.
Ignore me? Please do so, don't reply, starting now.
Maybe you just need a guide for how to act. I started a thread today on why responders normally should not conflict with a teacher. I want you to see how reasonable people add their ideas to it, and how things are debated, but people are respected.
Post Edited (2015-02-20 23:00)
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