 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: yaseungkim
Date: 2015-02-11 19:23
Who has experiences with low Eb / F correction Key.
I do not play clarinet and I am not a musician, but I wanted to know if these keys are necessary and critical in your music.
I do recall my son's teacher telling my son during the recital preparation to pay attention to that low F during K622 rehearsals. Would having that key make it all that much different ?
My motivation behind this question is, I wanted to know if it would be worth it for me to get my son a clarinet with low E/F pitch correction key, considering he has perfect pitch ear... my son stops during his practice if he does not sound right. Sometimes this drives me crazy because his practice sessions go longer and longer the more he stops during his practice instead of just playing through.
Post Edited (2015-02-11 19:54)
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Author: TomS
Date: 2015-02-11 20:20
If you buy the Ridenour Lyrique 575BC (in A), you probably won't need the low F correction vent ... the acoustical design is such that the low F is not flat. Selmer, allegedly has a model that has similar design features ...
I play Ridenour B-flat clarinets and the low F and E is right on the money, so I assume his clarinets pitched in A are similar.
To be honest, I suspect that in the Lyrique design process, some tiny, tiny compromise was made in the sonority of the lowest notes to implement this worthwhile tuning improvement ... have no confirmation from it's designer ... but, I love the resonance and response of the lowest notes, no tendency to "honk" like some other clarinets ... so it's a win-win design, IMHO.
In addition, Ridenour's clarinet will cost less than 1/2 the price of a new Buffet ... or a Backun, which has an automatic vent coupled with the register key ... (cool!).
Lot's of wonderful choices out there ... get what you like!
I don't work for Tom Ridenour or get any compensation or deals ... just like his stuff because of the great performance and value.
Tom
Post Edited (2015-02-11 20:28)
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Author: yaseungkim
Date: 2015-02-11 20:45
I think Ridenour uses the ABS Resin, and that material is no different than the material used for Yamaha 255 model, which my son has two of those for his school band. My son does not like the sound quality of ABS resin compared to a wooden grenadilla sound, this is just his personal preference.
Now, I am not knocking ABS resin, my problem is that he can tell the difference and he prefers the wooden sound.
I must say that his old, ex-clarinet teacher did not have that perfect pitch ear like my son, and he could not tell the difference between the sound of Yamaha 255 and R13 without a reference point (this is my way of saying I don't believe there are any deficiencies with ABS resin). I am just wondering if the Low E/F pitch correction key will enhance his music learning experience, or would it be just a waste of money. If having that low E/F pitch correction key will make a difference in his performance and music learning experience, I will go get one that has those keys some time in the immediate near future.
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Author: Johan H Nilsson
Date: 2015-02-11 20:53
There are *many* clarinets that trade a less flat E3, F3 and F#3 for a more flat E4, F4 and F#4, or vice versa.
Personally I prefer to have the low tones flat, since they are mostly less exposed and I can avoid having to finger the more frequent E4 and F4.
A good strategy is also to select clarinets with small twelfths... :-)
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Author: TomS
Date: 2015-02-11 21:10
None of Ridenour's professional clarinets used ABS plastic, they have always been made of hard rubber.
Plastic was only used in his entry level model, and it's not on the web site anymore, so I assume out of production.
I think Tom Ridenour still maintains that hard rubber has a superior sound (and stability) to plastics and Grenadilla wood ...
it's also really important to know that the material the clarinet is made of is less important then the acoustical design. With a proper design, you can make an instrument made of kitty litter and Elmer's glue sound decent ...
I owned a Yamaha 250/255 and it had severe tuning issues in that it was tuned very high ... maybe good for cold weather in football season, but not good for hot weather or inside concerts ...
Ridenour's biggest challenge is getting people to try his products without prejudice.
Tom
Post Edited (2015-02-11 21:23)
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Author: Dibbs
Date: 2015-02-11 21:16
He doesn't need the key. The vast majority of clarinet players don't have one. Well in excess of 99.9%, I would think.
He either has to remember to lip that bottom note up or to press the key. What's the difference?
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Author: TomS
Date: 2015-02-11 21:21
Agreed. Don't sweat the low F too much ... bite it up in pitch if you can ... it's expected to be flat ...!
Perfect pitch ... Wow! It can be a blessing or problem, I guess ... my son has it.
For myself, I just wish I had "perfect notes" ... (that is, the correct note all the time!) ...
Tom
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Author: yaseungkim
Date: 2015-02-11 22:14
> Per TomS: I owned a Yamaha 250/255 and it had severe tuning issues in
> that it was tuned very high ... maybe good for cold weather in football
> season, but not good for hot weather or inside concerts ...
Again, I am not a musician or a clarinettist....
Per my son's previous teacher, the Yamaha 255 is manufactured to be pitched higher to compensate for beginners/intermediate clarinettists, so that they don't sound flat. But my son can play it in correct pitch by adjusting his embouchure.
My son's previous school district exclusively recommended all their students to rent Yamaha 255 for the consistency and the quality, and all their clarinet students rent Yamaha 255.
At any rate, my son's current teacher uses Rossi and she has that low E/F pitch correction key, and it appears the top line Yamaha, Backun, Buffet has those pitch correction keys. I was just wondering if I should get it for my son since he asked what that key was on his teacher's clarinet last week.
Needless to say, my son's former teacher was an old man and he couldn't careless for the pitch correction key, that is to say, he dismissed it by saying "Tosca is a waste of money and it is no different than a fine quality R13" when I mentioned to him about purchasing a Tosca. And he plays R13.
But it appears Sang Yoon Kim plays Tosca, Wonkak Kim, as well as Han Kim. But Sharon Kam plays just regular old R13. I was just wondering... and my son is a Mr Kim, should he get a Tosca with that pitch correction key? I don't have that perfect pitch ear, and I don't play clarinet, but I want to give my son every bit of leg up on his competition at auditions and recitals. But if 99% of the clarinettists thinks that's a waste of money and time to go get one....
Post Edited (2015-02-11 22:17)
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-02-11 22:16
If your son's perfect pitch bothers him, or in turn you, by among other things, his cessation of playing whenever he is not in key, MAN did you and he pick the wrong instrument to study music with.
The clarinet is known for many beautiful attributes, its abilty to maintain perfect intonation across its entire range as a general rule certainly not being one of those attributes.
While pitch correction of the E/F will help, you will pay large sums for a clarinet with such hardware, and it still won't address other intonation issues that clarinet players deal with using a combination of training (e.g. embouchure and alternative fingerings,) repair adjustments by clarinet accousticians, and "sucking it up," or "accepting intonation compromises" as the nature of the instrument.
For example, playing the throat Bb with the register key has always been recognized as a compromise. The register key is in a less than ideal place to make the Bb voice in better tune, but not otherwise in the ideal place for this Bb, so as to not make the notes above the throat tones, actuated by this register key, terribly out of tune either. As per prior threads on this, some clarinet designers have had the register key open different vents depending upon whether the throat "A" key was also actuated, or made seperate mechanisms for the register and throat "Bb" key to be actuated by the left thumb, but most designers have implemented this with one vent and accepted compromise.
Really, if pitch is a major concern, spend less on this problem by purchasing a better clarinet as it regards overall intonation: a Ridenour.
I am of the opinion that not only Ridenour designs, but the fact that most of his offerings use hard rubber, not subject to the dimension changes of wood, aid in the consistency of his clarinets.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHcO3z_x_hY
A while back there was a mile long thread about this video where in response to criticism, Mr. Ridenour defended it by saying that he used a standard embouchure across the range, and did not "play for the test."
Post Edited (2015-02-11 22:37)
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Author: yaseungkim
Date: 2015-02-11 22:27
> If your son's perfect pitch bothers him, or in turn you, by among other
> things, his cessation of playing whenever he is not in key, MAN did you and > he pick the wrong instrument to study music with.
I don't know if everyone else has the same problem or not, but my sense is that both his R13 and Yamaha CSVA has the same issue of not sounding the same from one day to the next day... am I imagining this or is this true. I know that the house does not have the same humidity level every day, and that the house humidity level is different every day due to cold and fluctuating weather outside... maybe I need to move to a different house.
As for the rubber clarinet, I have heard too many horror stories in the past where you might not make an audition if you don't play a buffet because those "old farts" play buffet and they are partial. I did not want my son to show up at an audition with something else than a buffet while the judge is a partial buffet player... that's just my fear.
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-02-11 22:34
Poster:
I hear your concern (no pun intended.)
You may want to reach out to Ted Ridenour about a Texas clarinet competition sponsored by Buffet in which its winner played a Ridenour.
http://www.ridenourclarinetproducts.com/
(No affiliation. Buffet and Ridenour equipment used by this contributor.)
Post Edited (2015-02-11 22:38)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-02-11 22:39
I think the only really good attempt at the Low E and F pitch correction on a Boehm is the Yamaha CSG. And even then, the commercially available version does not go far enough to be practical. To really work as God (and the Germans) intended, the vent needs to be as large as the last tone holes of the bottom joint, AND it has to be located on the bell (like the German clarinets). I saw David Shifrin perform on a Yamaha CSG a few years ago custom fitted to look exactly this way. I think you'd need to speak to the Yamaha reps in New York. There is a fellow there (their top technical advisor......don't know his name, but he is Japanese) who can do this for you.
And yes, I had this feature on my full Oehler system clarinets (where it is more necessary) and it works great!
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-02-11 22:48
Another thought along the lines of this thread:
If the nature of these lowest notes, as known by a clarinet designer (at least a high end designer) is that they will invariably play out of tune, particularly flat, I don't know exactly why these manufacturers, who have otherwise chosen to address this, have done so in any way but Morrie Backun's, which is to automatically correct the problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAepmkQOpJ0
Granted, Mr. Backun's way may be more labor intensive (read: dollars) in that the additional venting appears to integrate with the register key, so that this additional venting is "cognizant" of the difference between the clarinet's lowest F/E and its corresponding 12ths above (C/B.) But the feature is always "on," irrespective of how fast the player may be passing through these low notes, and not have others hear the flatness: either given the speed of the notes, or as many of you know, because notes first voiced on the clarinet tend towards sharpness until they "settle in."
I often wonder if clarinet makers like Buffet and Yamaha, which implement this correction on their high end clarinets through the express intent of the player actuating a special key, (even if the keys are vastly different between these manufacturers) had more (or less) in mind than intonation, but marketing as well.
Was Buffet's offering of additional levers for the right pinky on their high end model(s), or Yamaha's right thumb actuated key on their high end model(s) an effort to say that "players play these notes with different intonation, which is why we never considered until now to put such a feature into our Boehm system clarinets, and that we choose to implement as a player option?"
And how is the fact that nearly all of their Boehm system clarinets before this, absense of such correction, okay with them? Did they design these earlier instruments with the low F/E to be less flat? And if they did, it might have come by making intonation compromises in other notes?
Conversely, are the instruments with this venting correction subject to flatter low F's and E's, so as to not compromise other notes, knowing the player can correct this manually with the venting? If so, why make the venting manually acutated?
Oehler system clarinets have had this feature for quite some time now, correct?
It seems to me that the best of all worlds would be were the player could flip a lever to manually or automatically engage such correction.
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Author: yaseungkim
Date: 2015-02-11 22:50
RE: Paul A
> I think you'd need to speak to the Yamaha reps in New York. There is a
> fellow there (their top technical advisor......don't know his name, but he is
> Japanese) who can do this for you.
Were you thinking Tomoji Hirakata ?
Mr Hirakata provided "Atelier Service" to my son two weeks ago... he adjusted my son's clarinet to exact likings of my son. Mr Hirakata says my son has one of the finest tonal quality among all the people that walked through his shop... =)
<he probably says that to everyone, I would never know... but my son's old teacher always praised my son's tone>
Post Edited (2015-02-11 22:52)
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Author: TomS
Date: 2015-02-11 22:57
Wow! A Rossi ... what a nice instrument with a great sound! I borrowed a friend's for a while, years ago (don't know which model) ... beautiful and wonderfully designed and constructed. I'd love to add one to my playable collection ...
You have to also keep in mind that many well known artists MAY (?) be compensated, in some way, for their use and endorsement of certain brands/models of clarinets. Same is true for golf balls and fishing lures ... list could go on and on ...
Ridenour does not do this. Others may not, as well.
There is also a "herd mentality" (when it comes to anything, really, not just clarinets) that is partially cemented together with tainted information, peer pressure and insecurity ...
Be a trend setter, damn the dominate paradigm ... full speed ahead!
Best of luck in your quest for the best! You will find it.
Tom
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2015-02-11 23:12
yaseungkim wrote:
> Were you thinking Tomoji Hirakata ?
> Mr Hirakata provided "Atelier Service" to my son two weeks
> ago... he adjusted my son's clarinet to exact likings of my
> son.
Now please just let your kid play. Don't sweat it, and don't listen to him bitching about his tools (his clarinets). He has to learn what they do, their idiosyncrasies, and adjust. It's an imperfect instrument (no matter what you do) and will always be, no matter what you do.
As an anecdote (and maybe antidote):
My son decided many years ago that he wanted to be a professional clarinet player. I put him through Interlochen Arts Academy, he studied at CIM under Frank Cohen, and got his bachelors in clarinet performance. Everyone told me how good his tone & rhythm and all that was.
He ended up being a (horror of horrors) professional musician, but not as a clarinet player. Go figure ...
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Author: TomS
Date: 2015-02-11 23:16
"As for the rubber clarinet, I have heard too many horror stories in the past where you might not make an audition if you don't play a buffet because those "old farts" play buffet and they are partial. I did not want my son to show up at an audition with something else than a buffet while the judge is a partial buffet player... that's just my fear"
Put a piece of tape over the label on the clarinet and tell them it's a new Buffet beta model with inline trill keys, on loan from the factory ...
I don't think you will have problems from the judges on this ... however, a local repair shop all but refused to service my Lyrique Speranza ... I departed and vowed to never return ... which was a shame, because it is a great repair facility.
Biggest problem might be your kid's teacher ... but if she is playing a Rossi, that shows some encouraging open mindedness ...
It's not just Ridenour prejudice, there are other perfectly great, but relatively obscure brands that are looked at askance or without an opportunity to check out ...
Tom
Post Edited (2015-02-11 23:27)
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Author: Wes
Date: 2015-02-11 23:42
The Italian artist, Sergio Bosi, told me that he rarely uses the E/F key on his Tosca, unless there is a sudden very loud note needed. That key gets in the way for me and is more trouble than it is worth. A Buffet Prestige R 13 can be very good without that key provided it is set up carefully after manufacturing. It is not very out of tune on any note.
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Author: yaseungkim
Date: 2015-02-11 23:44
My son's old teacher was an "old fart." He was inflexible, set in old ways... either his way or the high way type. He was a great musician, but we took the high way.
> "Biggest problem might be your kid's teacher ... but if she is playing
> a Rossi, that shows some encouraging open mindedness ..."
My son's current teacher is a very young musician and she is very flexible (almost too much), and is very open minded. She will always have my son play a piece, then ask, what did you think about the way you played... and my son will point out the passage he had most difficulty with, then she will pick up her clarinet and play the way my son played it, then she will show my son how about if you try it this way... and when my son duplicates her way, she will ask, now, did that sound and play better ?
My problem with her approach is, she will not take a stance on anything. She will go along with whatever you think and will listen and not talk but nod. If only you could take her personality and mix it up with his old teacher's ways. That would be just awesome but you can't have cake and eat it too. But I like my son's current teacher compared to the old one because she is flexible.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-02-12 02:15
Yes, that's the guy.
We need to take a step back though and appreciate history.
The main idea behind the Boehm compromises WAS to make things easier. The intonation compromises with the two main registers eliminates some stodgy keywork; streamlines the design.
Also, I believe it was Tony Pay in one of his last postings who pointed out that you CAN design less compromise in the Boehm clarinet tuning at great sacrifice to the RESONANCE of the horn. So Selmer and Ridenour probably tweak in this direction but cannot fully continue this idea without turing their horns into kazoos.
............Paul Aviles
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Author: brycon
Date: 2015-02-12 07:14
Yes it's necessary--go get a clarinet with with a correction key; go get five! I play a Vito dazzler with a correction key. My teacher says that every note I play needs correction. But what does he know? His ears can't handle my beautiful sounds.
With my Vito dazzler, I'm going to get a big gig in an orchestra and make a thousand million dollars!
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Author: Jamnik
Date: 2015-02-12 09:58
One thing that I have found out about wood instruments is that no matter how stringent they follow the specifications during production, every single wood clarinet ever made plays at least a tiny bit different. It can be the intonation, resistance, evenness between left and right hands or registers, etc. Wood IS organic and no two pieces are exactly the same. The hard rubber clarinets especially Ridenour's are in my opinion the most consistent across the board within the same model. Even the Buffet Greenlines have inconsistencies from horn to horn and they start out as grenadilla sawdust and resin.
I am not advertising for Ridenour in any way, but don't be fooled by his low prices on a professional level horn. Unlike the popular name brand manufacturers, in my opinion he is in business for one reason and one reason only. That is to provide an exceptional clarinet that tunes extremely well and which the player can concentrate on playing and ENJOYING making music without worrying about alternate fingerings for trouble notes, lipping, and in a general term, STRUGGLING with their horn instead of making music. Isn't that why we play in the first place? Ridenour doesn't have a fancy boutique showroom, pushy salesmen, or spend lavishly on promoting, advertising, and sponsorships. He keeps his overhead to a minimum and passes those savings onto the consumer! He doesn't have his hand in your pocket like the dealers do hoping to make a huge commission. How many dealers or manufacturers do you know you can say this about?
Jamnik
Post Edited (2015-02-12 10:04)
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Author: yaseungkim
Date: 2015-02-12 10:14
I spoke to him personally over the phone about a month ago about possibly purchasing his basset clarinet and he told me that they are no longer offered. According to Tom, they are not offered not because of his choosing but because the "clarinettists" were up I'm arms about him offering such poor quality product to ruin music... or something to that effect, I was very saddened to hear that.
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Author: Tom Ridenour
Date: 2015-02-12 10:26
I would like to clarify something about the Basset clarinet we offered for a period of time and why it was discontinued;
The Basset clarinet is no longer offered because of an overall lack of demand for it back in 2006-2010. We may have sold the last couple we produced in 2011 but I'm not sure. The quality of the product was not the issue.
I personally believe that if we introduced the same instrument today that the response would likely be different as clarinetists are generally far more accepting of hard rubber clarinets than they were when the Basset we offered was introduced back in 07' and 08' (I forget the exact timeline).
At this point though we have other "irons in the fire" so to speak and it simply isn't high on our to do list.
Ted Ridenour
Ridenour Clarinet Products,
rclarinetproducts.com
sales@ridenourclarinetproducts.com
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Author: Jamnik
Date: 2015-02-12 10:38
He is still having to convince much of the clarinet world that will only play a wood instrument that hard rubber is an excellent material for manufacturing clarinets. Unfortunately the snobby powers that be with all of their followers, many of them blind followers in my opinion, do not want to accept that they overspent when purchasing their clarinet so they try to discredit Tom and his hard rubber line to protect their own interests.
Here is an example of what I mean: When buying a car you have several choices. All basically do the same exact thing. There are a few exotics out there just as there is with clarinets and not all cars are equal by any means. Let's eliminate the economy cars because they are built for value and are entry level so to speak. Let's also eliminate the exotics because they are few and far between. With the models left there are still numerous choices. Someone that buys a Lexus, Infinity, or Acura is not going to accept that they got a Toyota, Nissan, or Honda with a few extra badges and some bells and whistles at a higher price even though they have the same power train and function. If you purchase the Acura, you will maintain that it is a better car than the Honda because it costs more. Here you have the snobs turning their noses up at the Honda owners who got basically the same car for 20% less. Not to say Acura drivers are snobs but you get the idea. Nobody wants to admit that they spent more than they should have and will do nearly anything to justify their decision.
Jamnik
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Author: yaseungkim
Date: 2015-02-12 10:44
Hey Tom, are your clarinets offered in silver or gold keys at all.
I did quick browse of your site and I was not sure if they were.
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Author: yaseungkim
Date: 2015-02-12 11:00
Hey Jamnik, aren't Toyota camry made in USA and Lexus made in Japan? My first car was a Buick and after three years bought new, it started to squeak... had no idea why, after four years I wanted to replace the radio and took the dash out, only to discover two screws were holding up the radio while there was six screw holes. A/C was no different. Head light housing unit was always wiggling whenever I was waxing my car and did not know why until my headlight assembly was hit by a rock on the interstate and I got under it to replace it. Again, six screw was by design to hold it in place but there were only two there. This was my first car out of college in 1990. I was sad, then I was angry, and I promised myself I will never by an American made car again until Hyundai started to assemble cars in Alabama.
I think the car analogy is not a fair one.
Post Edited (2015-02-12 11:05)
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Author: Tom Ridenour
Date: 2015-02-12 11:05
Mr. Kim,
I'm happy to answer questions about our products but I don't believe this is the proper forum for us to do that. The only reason I posted about the basset was to clarify the reasons it was discontinued.
If you have specific questions feel free to contact us privately.
Ted Ridenour
Ridenour Clarinet Products
sales@ridenourclarinetproducts.com
1-888-258-7845
Ridenour Clarinet Products,
rclarinetproducts.com
sales@ridenourclarinetproducts.com
Post Edited (2015-02-12 11:07)
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Author: yaseungkim
Date: 2015-02-12 11:13
That was a simple yes or no question I thought, but I guess not.
Sorry for asking in a public forum.
I thought it was an appropriate question for two reasons,
1. My son's R13 is turned in to Buffet for nickel key repair, in the meantime we would like a quality professional grade clarinet.
2. Other people might want to know too if you offered a silver or a gold key clarinet as nickel might not be the key of choice for everyone.
Post Edited (2015-02-12 11:49)
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Author: Jamnik
Date: 2015-02-12 12:30
Car analogy wasn't meant to be taken as an absolute. Most Japanese cars sold in the US are mostly manufactured here now. It was only mentioned as an example and stated as such. Sorry if you took offense. It wasn't the purpose at all. Just a comparison that I thought was easily understandable. Your Buick story can be of use though. Someone in that manufacturing plant did not follow the specifications for installing the radio (or maybe they did what GM was telling them to by only using two screws). Regardless, there seems to have been a variation causing a difference in quality instead of a consistent one.
Jamnik
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-02-12 18:21
I see a couple of themes in this thread that stand out.
* Clarinet Intonation
* Clarinet Teachers
* Ridenour Clarinet Products (RCP)
If I may take them in reserve order:
(RCP)
Poster Jamnik: I note and agree with your feelings of belief in the (RCP) business model and products, and also agree they’re in business ”for one reason and one reason only,” just not the reason you described. RCP is in business, IMHO, to make money. There’s nothing wrong with that, and kudos to them for doing it in a way that provides value and ethics to their customers and the industry.
Original Poster Yaseungkim: As you may be aware, RCP has been one of the most active manufacturers on this bboard. IMHO, the thanks they’ve often got for being so is a metaphorical “kick in the teeth,” if not, in fairness, from you or I. True: posters are entitled to their opinions, and this is not meant necessarily as a disparaging remark towards them or this bboard, but rather, maybe RCP has learned the hard way that “you can’t be all things to all people.”
Ted’s given you opportunity to call him on “his nickel.” Maybe he’s learned that answers to questions invariably lead to only further questions best handled through the immediate feedback of voice communication.
Clarinet Teachers
Original Poster Yaseungkim: I appreciate your concern over your son’s original teacher to be, in your opinion, too inflexible, while the current teacher too non-committal. I’m not witnessing this first hand like you, but I can tell you that I’ve had IMHO both types of teachers, and been both types of teachers.
As it regards my role as teacher, I tend to adjust my teaching style to students so as to be most effective. In one extreme, when a student comes to me, near tears, with specific problems to fix, I analyze, detect, and correct with little flexibility, telling the student in no uncertain terms, “Here is your problem. If you want to get rid of it, this is what you need to do.” My solutions may be multifaceted or incorporate student alternatives, but my stance is, “it’s okay if you don’t take my advice, just don’t come to me with this problem going forward.”
On the other extreme, I may be dealing with a more precocious or adult student, or one who IMHO exhibits a more defensive or passive aggressive or strong willed/opinionated type posture. It could be a music teacher in training learning the basics of clarinet, already coming to the table with knowledge and opinions that deserve to be respected.
By no means am I implying any of these traits to be those of your son, but in such cases, you would likely find me acting more like his current teacher, asking “what do you think about this approach,” knowing in my mind and privately, that what I just suggested was in fact better.
Only you and your son can determine proper fit. Consider talking to this current teacher, if you haven’t.
Clarinet Intonation
Original Poster Yaseungkim: Only you can put a value on the funds you’ll have to part with to acquire an instrument that better approaches proper intonation than others: an attribute that’s also player dependent. Low E/F correction, the subject of this thread, as you’ve heard, is only one of the clarinet’s many intonation “mine fields.” The rest are dealt with through training, acceptance of tradeoffs, and where addressable by a clarinet acoustician (not all intonation problems are) repair. Training can include alternative fingers, embouchure adjustments, and awareness of how temperature and humidty can affect play.
Intonation aside, we could have just as easily had this discussion about left pinky Eb/Ab levers. Some would tell you it’s a nice feature but expensive, others would tell you it’s not needed, some would say they wished they had it and why, and some would say they don't how they lived without it. Yet another camp would tell you how they had theirs removed because it got in the way, and yet another camp would tell you that all manufacturers should provide it as an option because it's not expensive to implement.
I can make you no guarantees, but one of the best clarinet accousticians out there IMHO, that can help with intonation problems on the current instruments of players, and not just for his own wares, is Tom Ridenour.
Should you speak with Ted, you can talk to him about these issues via the very interactive voice conversation that's most conducive to the efficient exchange of ideas, that Ted suggested.
Post Edited (2015-02-12 18:23)
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Author: yaseungkim
Date: 2015-02-12 19:05
Thanks for your comments whiteplainsdave... I appreciate your thoughtful comments.
I love my son's current teacher and everything she is doing for him. I am glad we've got her as my son's teacher.
She is going over all those things I never dreamed of, things like filing a reed, blowing on the MP favoring from left/right, to determine issues with your reed, these are somethings you learn from a teacher who cares about your music more than just playing notes.
As for any clarinets, I will not buy another clarinet that's made using nickel keys... my son's body chemistry and nickel does not go together.
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2015-02-15 10:11
Based on the way you've been replying to things I feel like there's not much I could say that would really shape your opinion on this, so I think the best solution is to have your son try pretty much every clarinet he can find till he gets one he likes. A lot of sites have options where u can try it for a week and send it back if you don't like it. Don't look care about the name associated or features it has or doesn't have just focus on how it plays. Also about nickel keys, if the finish wears it doesn't matter the key will still work unless its so corrosive that it melts through the key.
Post Edited (2015-02-15 10:14)
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Author: yaseungkim
Date: 2015-02-15 10:27
Thanks for you comment, but nickel is toxic to humans... I did not know this until the clarinet keys were tarnishing. You wouldn't play your clarinet if the keys were plated with lead would you? You wouldn't buy a leaded toy and hand them to your child to hold them as much as four hours a day on weekends would you?
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2015-02-15 10:31
I mean there is literally cyanide in apples but nobody seems to be dying from that. My point is plenty of people play nickel and I've never heard this complaint before. ( i mean gold and silver are also toxic technically) But I hope you do end up going with my suggestion of trying all clarinets
Post Edited (2015-02-15 10:42)
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Author: yaseungkim
Date: 2015-02-15 10:53
Seriously, please don't eat apple unless you peel the skin, or buy an organic apple. An apple a day does invite cancer... the skin is laced with carcinogens. And most people i know don't eat apple seeds.
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2015-02-15 10:54
I'm sensing a trend here... Well you accidentally eat apple seeds just like you accidentally eat cyanide.
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Author: yaseungkim
Date: 2015-02-15 11:37
Very small amount of cyanide in apple seed is not going to build up in your body. Cyanide is "CN", it has no heavy metal in there.... <gee, my organic chemistry days are nothing but a vague allusion anymore>
But apple skin is sprayed with carcinogens at the orchard to keep those pests away.
wheras, nickel is a metal. I think government has published acceptable level of consumption guidelines for nickel because they know it is toxic.
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