 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jonok
Date: 2015-02-04 09:05
Being literal, I always read fingering charts to say that Bflat is ONLY the throat A and register key ... and it made sense to me as I discovered that my Bflat was much clearer if I managed to completely release the thumb ring. Though I now note that fingering charts don't refer to the thumb ring, just that there's a hole.
I ask because I've been told I'm overdoing it by trying to release the ring completely, and that the solution is to use right hand keys for the throat notes (which I had been doing, not so much for tone, but more for the facility of getting to following notes over the break).
So, what is the consensus ... is just venting the thumb hole enough (even if it leaves the ring mostly / completely down)?
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aspiring fanatic
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-02-04 09:41
The purpose of ring keys is they're not meant to be felt while playing, but operated by simply placing a finger (or thumb) onto the tonehole so they do their job without any extra thought from the player.
When a tonehole is open on your fingering chart, you should be lifting your finger or thumb off it enough so the ring is completely released. Some special fingerings for tuning purposes may require pressing the ring but not covering the tonehole, but these aren't part of the basic fingering so you needn't worry about them for the time being.
So for the standard throat Bb fingering, you only open both the throat A key and the speaker key together without touching any rings with the left hand fingers or thumb.
The left thumb ring is there to keep the small pad tucked under the throat A touchpiece closed so the left thumb on its own gives F natural while held closed on the thumb tonehole and gives G natural when it's released
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: derf5585
Date: 2015-02-04 09:52
If I have the time (Slow passages) I use the "A" key and the third (up) trill key
fsbsde@yahoo.com
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-02-04 15:29
Also it is handy to keep in mind that this IS a fairly "imperfect" note. You need to let the SOUND of it dictate what you need to do with your air/embouchure to make it sound as much as possible like the notes around it. This takes a bit MORE air and a bit MORE embouchure control.
Also I would use some resonance fingerings to accomplish this "unity of timbre" as well. My favorite which can be used pretty much in ANY fingering situation (except the quickest) would be to keep 2 and 3 of both hands down (this allows a more resonance through the tube even though the note itself is at the top). This one does not require using the "Eb/Ab" key (pinky key) which cannot be reached all the time.
...........Paul Aviles
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2015-02-04 19:02
When I go from throat A to Bb, my thumb doesn't touch the ring. Pushing the ring all the way down makes the Bb very flat, but just touching the ring or pushing it slightly doesn't hurt. Experiment with your thumb position to find a way to get on the ring and hole quickly and with minimum movement when moving up from Bb to clarion C. No two hands are alike, so you have to find your own best position.
Try playing clarion C while opening the throat A key with the side of your finger. Then go between C and Bb just by rotating your thumb to open the hole. (Don't worry about being out of tune. This is just an exercise to learn the minimum amount of motion you need to make.)
Nothing short of extra keywork will make the "pinch" Bb really good. You just blow harder and add resonance fingers, particularly the two ring fingers and the right low F key.
My right hand and index finger length are right for using the next-to-top trill key most of the time. I've read that students at the French Conservatoire are taught to use the side key all the time.
Everyone goes through this problem and learns what to do. So can you.
Ken Shaw
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2015-02-04 22:47
As Chris points out, the only purpose for the ring on the left thumb tone hole is to close the pad under the A key touch piece when you close the left thumb tone hole. If a fingering chart shows the left thumb tone hole as open, it is also implying that the pad under the A key touch piece is fully open. If that pad is properly vented, then any pressure on the left thumb ring will partially close the pad and interfere with both tone and tuning. It doesn't take much motion to clear the thumb ring while holding the register key. Simply roll your thumb onto the register key rather than trying to move up to it. Make sure that your instrument is not missing the cork on the underside of the register key touch piece. If that cork is missing, the touch piece may go down far enough that your thumb will remain in a position that slightly depresses the ring. If the cork is missing, you may need to evaluate the venting of the register key after the cork is replaced. If the register key venting was adjusted without the cork in place, replacing the cork will reduce the venting of that key and also interfere with tone. Any pad that is not properly vented (either too much or too little) can interfere with both tone and/or tuning.
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Author: donald
Date: 2015-02-04 23:45
This note is usually referred to as "Throat B flat", but as a student I also recall hearing (far less often- in teaching material from the UK i think) it called "Pinch B flat" because of the movement required by the left thumb when it has to push down the register key, but stay clear of the thumb ring.
The left thumb actually has the most complicated job of all the digits- it has quite a variety of movements to make, for a digit designed primarily for grasping...
- on and off the thumb hole/ring
- from "on thumb ring" to "thumb ring plus reg key"
- from "on thumb ring" to "on reg key (no thumb ring)"
- from "on thumb ring plus reg key" to.....
(I won't go on, you get the idea)
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Author: jonok
Date: 2015-02-05 02:54
Thanks all.
My problem has been that my "unconscious" right hand position puts my right thumb at about 45 degrees. That's OK for chamaleau notes, and for adding the register ... going say F to clarion C is fine but then back to throat Bf, when I try to completely release the ring, my thumb position is pinching a tiny bit of skin between the register key and the corner of the nail. Eventually this turns into a callous - especially as I'm learing a few pieces with lots of Bflats - which gets painful.
So I had been trying to get my "unconscious" hand position a bit more "in" (with the wrist a little bit bent back) so my thumb is closer to 1 o'clock position ... which seems to work but still feels quite awkward, ... I was perservering.
Anyway, my teacher says I shouldn't be concerned about releasing the ring key, and venting the thumb hole is enough, which leaves the ring key mostly down. Adding right hand keys will help to adjust the tone.
It's certainly simpler but still releasing the thumb ring sounds better to my ear ... though I haven't done a tuner test since this as I lost my tuner. Of course.
Dilemma - do what teacher says (which is surprisingly the easy option), or keep working on making the 1 o'clock thumb position work?
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aspiring fanatic
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-02-05 07:17
Is your teacher a clarinet player?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2015-02-05 22:00
What is the maximum number of fingers and keys you can use to play a throat Bb? I have no idea whether you have unusual hands but, if you don't, it would seem to me that, if you can't play a pinch Bb without depressing the thumb ring, there is a problem with your hand position. If that is the case, you are likely to find more problems than just that one note. There are times when alternate fingerings are useful, but don't learn them at the expense of the basics.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2015-02-05 23:39
There is no consensus on this subject except that one does not usually put the ring down when playing the Bb. Most good players have experimented with covering a combination of fingers to "voice" the Bb better. I cover the 3rd tone hole if both hands and the F-C pinky key RH while playing the Bb. After a while I got so used to it I do it even in fast passages, up to a point of course. Not everyone uses the same combinations. You should experiment to find what voices and tunes the best for your instrument, mouthpiece etc. Also, make sure you clean the Bb tone tube every year. It's easy to take off the register key and use a pipe cleaner to clean the tube. I useally do it first, then I fold the cleaner in half and wet it slightly and "force" it through. If I think there's still "gunk" stuck in there I use my little key screw driver and "very" gently use that so not to scratch the tube. Swabing will eventually create some dust or whatever in the tube.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
Post Edited (2015-02-07 00:08)
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Author: jonok
Date: 2015-02-09 04:04
Someone clever once said, "The problem with communication is the illusion it has happened".
The key bit from my original message was "completely release the thumb ring".
I was trying to make sure my thumb wasn't touching the ring AT ALL for Bflat.
I've been working on the weekend and there IS a compromise where the ring is sort of half released that is much more practical (ie doesn't pinch) and that gives a good tone.
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aspiring fanatic
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