 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Roxann
Date: 2015-01-15 21:12
First off, I apologize to whomever includes this statement when they post on BBoards...I cannot find your name because I don't remember exactly which post I was reading.
I copied, pasted, enlarged, and printed this quote earlier this week and have been contemplating it every day since. Originally, I thought it said, "Slowly makeS technical haste!" so I thought it was in reference to practicing slowly to make progress. Then I realized there was no "S" at the end of "make" and began wondering exactly what is meant by this statement. Does it mean we don't want to progress too rapidly? Does it mean to practice slowly to make gains? Any other thoughts on what it might mean? Thanks, folks:)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-01-15 21:22
As I remember, it refers to practicing a difficult fast passage slowly in order to build the control to play it at the right (fast) tempo later.
Karl
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2015-01-16 02:46
I could use that as the mission statement for my workshop!
Tony F.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2015-01-16 19:19
I forget how said this but it goes this way.
"It's never to late to practice a passage slowly again".
My take, When learning a passage it's important to learn it correctly before playing it fast so you don't keep practicing the mistakes faster. And remember, a wrong note is just a note, but rhythm is either perfect or it's incorrect. That's mine too.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-01-16 21:53
Hi Roxann:
Slowly makes technical haste:
IMHO to practice technical material at slow tempo, only building up tempo gradually after you can perform reliably/consistently/on demand at the existing speed, is superior in the expeditious achievement of the goal of playing something technical fast and correct to, say, “I’m going to keep on hacking away at this at performance speed (maybe even only parts of it) until I get it right.”
I’ve had players do the latter. I ask them to slow down the metronome and play it correctly and they can’t. They can only play at fast speed, which better hides the notes they’ve missed in quickness of play. They have “muscle memory” for only performing the action at a particular pace, and not well at that.
Slowly make technical haste:
IMHO a similarly looking “sibling” of the above that says, if you want to finish a difficult task faster, without (or with less) error, you need to slow things down enough (especially at first) that you don’t make as many mistakes while effecting the work. It lends, I believe, into the notion, “if you didn’t have enough time to finish it fast, do you really have enough time to finish it twice?” I think it speaks more to what is the fastest way to effect a work product correctly, rather than seeking to effect that work product correctly at a fast pace. Speed may be desired, but only secondarily, accuracy playing the major role, even if double checking work reduces speed and even if repetition is expected and desired to improve speed without loss of accuracy.
===
Roxanne: I think what I am about to say is complex.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUVNYVKA0z4
In the above video, I think Julian Bliss somewhat applies the first concept above to metronome speed, and the second concept above, to breaking the practice day up into multiple sessions.
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Author: Wisco99
Date: 2015-01-16 22:11
Playing a section of music REALLY slow is the hardest thing for me to do. Any imperfection really stands out. I become aware of the transition between notes, any tension in my hands, etc. It is like having a magnifying glass on what you are playing...every little thing really stands out. Playing it slowly until it sounds smooth seems to program my brain so when I do have to play it up to speed it will be easy if I have done my homework. Even as a warmup on a difficult passage right before a show it can help to do it very slowly. Then the music has a chance to come out and I am not concentrating on the innumerable mechanical movements that are involved in playing. It helps.
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Author: PaulIsaac
Date: 2015-01-17 03:14
It was the very talented TomS who said this in a post and he added "Practice slowly until it is right".
I have taken this on as my mantra for 2015.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-01-17 08:36
I don't like the "until." You practice S-L-O-W-L-Y AND correctly......period.
Moving to a quicker tempo becomes a 'shift' (you'll find practicing correctly over time that you can play that passage with MUCH more velocity right off the bat after the groundwork has been laid).
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: TomS
Date: 2015-01-17 09:08
I posted this comment a few days ago ... "Slowly make technical haste". I think I stole this from either Keith Stein's "The Art of Clarinet Playing" or Daniel Bonade's "Clarinet Compendium".
I sold/gave away all my clarinet stuff a few years ago so I couldn't check where it came from.
My favorite is: "Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT PRACTICE makes perfect!" ... and I think Vince Lombardi came up with this one.
Tom
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-01-18 19:57
With a bit of comic twist, as America’s goofiest TV dad, Phil Dunphy of Modern Family likes to say/repeat whenever he needs his family to egress someplace quickly (e.g. house fire drill, house alarm set but not yet active, old car full of dust after turning on A/C):
“Slow is smooth and smooth is fast!”
I’d argue aspects of both versions of “Slowly make(s) technical haste,” with
and without the “s,” apply to that statement.
To do it slowly is to do it error free (smoothly), which is faster than doing it fast, making mistakes, and having to repeat the task at least once (the second meaning with the “s” I believe.)
Alternatively, as Paul suggests above, practicing difficult passages slowly and getting the fingerings/technique down cold allows quicker transition to play correctly at tempo, the first meaning without the “s” I believe.
IMHO, "Learn to walk before you run," is to "slowly make technical haste," as
"Don't run! Walk!," as said by a teacher to students (who CAN run, but will likely slip and fall if they do) on an icy patch of ground, is to "slowly makes technical haste."
Post Edited (2015-01-18 20:00)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-01-18 22:34
Not to beat a dead horse, but this IS different from the typical advice to start slow AND then take up the tempo a few clicks, play, take up the tempo a few clicks, play.......etc.
JUST PRACTICE SLOW. ALWAYS PLAY PERFECTLY.
The "fast" comes weeks, months later, perhaps even longer........but it comes.
..................Paul Aviles
Post Edited (2015-01-19 00:56)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-01-19 07:31
Paul Aviles wrote:
> Not to beat a dead horse, but this IS different from the
> typical advice to start slow AND then take up the tempo a few
> clicks, play, take up the tempo a few clicks, play.......etc.
>
Why? When do you start to speed up? How long must you PLAY PERFECTLY slowly before you try it a little faster?
Of course, if moving the tempo up a few clicks causes errors, then you probably want to go back to the last tempo that was error-free for a while.
>
> JUST PRACTICE SLOW. ALWAYS PLAY PERFECTLY.
>
>
> The "fast" comes weeks, months later, perhaps even
> longer........but it comes.
>
If I have a performance of something difficult in a month, then this isn't useful.
You need a little more structure if you need to prepare something in the real world of music performance - time is finite.
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-01-19 18:29
But if you always think "emergency" then that's how you will always play.
How good to you want to be five years from now? As good as a player that only has a few weeks to learn the Nielsen from scratch?
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-01-19 20:12
Paul Aviles wrote:
> How good to you want to be five years from now? As good as a
> player that only has a few weeks to learn the Nielsen from
> scratch?
>
That's one category of practice - laying developmental groundwork for the future.
The other category of practice is the kind with a deadline. Professionals, amateur adults and students in school ensembles all have to deal with this kind of practice because almost all of us at whatever level we play spend some of our time preparing for performances. They may be months away or not.
My only point is that there is - must be - an intersection between JUST PRACTICE SLOW. ALWAYS PLAY PERFECTLY and "start slow AND then take up the tempo a few clicks..." Etudes, routine technical exercises, long tones, as well as major concerto and chamber music that isn't for imminent performance can all be approached slowly and patiently. The music that a player is now rehearsing for a concert in a month needs to be worked out in a more structured, goal-driven way.
Besides, even with those long-term building materials, PRACTICE SLOW, ALWAYS PRACTICE PERFECTLY has an obvious limit that takes further explanation. How good do I want to be in five years (using a generic I - at my age I may not be playing at all in 5 years)? How will I know what progress I've made five years from now if at some point I don't test the limits by speeding up a little? The advice *as you wrote it in CAPS* will find me still playing the Nielsen concerto molto adagio, which is in most ways I can think of pretty useless (except the places where that's what Nielsen wrote). There's a big piece of that process that gets you from slow and correct to faster and musical, and you shouldn't just leave it out because it seems obvious. Like most slogans, this one oversimplifies.
Karl
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2015-01-19 23:29
I initiated a post about fast practice a while ago. I think it is relevant here:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=398858&t=398079
It discusses an interesting video about the principle of "chaining" at speed to iron out a tough technical passage as a more efficient way to learn than slow practice:
http://youtu.be/f9X4h-cY1uw
I guess practicing slow and building up speed for things like scales and fundamentals has significant value to imprint the brain and fingers to play at *all* tempos. But when a particular fast passage needs to be mastered, I wouldn't necessarily say that slow practice is the best way to get there.
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
Post Edited (2015-01-20 00:54)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-01-19 23:53
I agree that there is some fundamental disagreement on this point. But when you look at players such as Julian Bliss giving this very advice on how he practices, it's hard to argue with it.
What I am trying to do is cut through the 99% of what most of us are told to do for practice so that maybe more of us can benefit from what the top players have known all along.
And two things about this:
o As you practice S-L-O-W-L-Y and pedantically, try it at tempo every now and
then, you'll really surprise yourself
o Once you OWN this discipline you'll also be surprised how much less you need it
with subsequent technique.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: tylerleecutts
Date: 2015-01-21 03:17
I agree with Paul- if it's not perfect, then your're just practicing fast mistakes.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2015-01-22 09:04
One of this BBoard participants called me "very talented" ... No, I think I have negative talent ... less aptitude for music than the average bear. I just have an above average love, which had compensated somewhat, but still to the left of zero on the talent number line.
Besides, most good musicians are actually just very smart people that took a different road on their way to becoming equally impressive professionals with dissimilar and generally more lucrative careers. Intelligence can masquerade as "talent" ... talent is sometimes just instinctively doing things mostly correct, that others have to learn and struggle with ... maybe using high intelligence as a brute compensating force rather than possessing a natural aptitude works as about as well. Now if you have aptitude and intelligence ... WOW!
I'll record some of my playing for download, and give everyone an effective tool to vacate vermin from their homes.
Practicing fast mistakes or practicing mistakes quickly. It's a trap ... and you won't win auditions with mistakes, especially wrong notes.
Yes slowly and perfectly, always? Tempo is last priority? Right?
One of my teachers suggested that occasionally, just set the metronome to the max and rip through your exercise like a bat out of hell! Put the pedal to the metal for a minute! You will miss a few notes but he insisted it had benefits, as long as used very sparingly. I'll do this for scales, usually ...especially chromatic. But not too often ... get's the dogs barking and wakes up the baby ...
Tom
Post Edited (2015-01-22 09:33)
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