 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: GBK
Date: 2014-12-18 20:51
In my playing career I have used only Morre reeds (yes, I still have some left), Vandoren or Gonzalez. But today, I happened to notice that I had a few unopened old boxes of basic Rico reeds on the shelf in my studio, hidden from view all these decades. There were a few of the old 25 reed 'brown box' and some of the newer(?) 'orange box' type reeds.
Just for fun I tried a few, and guess what - they really weren't bad. Not sure I'd use them in orchestra, but for a basic (disposable) practice reed with no need to worry about breaking in, adjusting or fussing over it was an interesting surprise.
Of course they are not as full bodied or refined as premium reeds, but for a quick use as a practice reed for a few days before throwing them away it does serve a purpose.
Now, I'm certainly not saying to ditch your current reed of choice, but for a quick reed that will probably play adequately right out of the box for practice it's actually a viable choice.
Sometimes, you get surprised.
...GBK
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2014-12-18 21:53
I'm using Orange Box Ricos on Bass. In Concert. Played worse stuff. :-)
--
Ben
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2014-12-18 22:56
A few years ago, I opened a brown box of Ricos from around 1965. They played (and tasted) just like they did when I was a beginner in 1955.
They were absolutely useable, say, for marching band. In the West Point Band, I used one on my Bundy for over two years. But I could never get one to play like a blue-box Vandoren. For practice today, it's Legere all the way.
Ken Shaw
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2014-12-18 22:59
The reason is: Aging. I have many boxes of old reed brands/models, most of which were considered to have been mediocre or even downright crappy back when they were new, e.g Rico brown box, Charpen, Ciccone, Symmetricut, DiamondCut, etc., which I've found to be pretty decent now in various applications, since they're all 20-30 years old. Most of these were cut pretty thin and didn't work well when new, but now, having aged for decades, the cane seems to have compressed and 'densified' and can yield pretty good results on some mouthpieces.
In contrast, from time to time I break out new, top-of-the-line reeds from several makers of good repute (Vandoren, Rico Grand Concert, etc.) and have mostly been disappointed with how they feel/play/scrape, usually because the cane seems excessively soft and spongy -- which I attribute to insufficient aging rather than to the inherent quality of the cane itself.
I'm certainly not the first person to advocate buying reeds and then storing them for ten years or more before use, but I certainly will vouch for that practice if you have the luxury of doing so.
Just sayin'.........
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2014-12-18 23:29
By the feel of the cane when I scrape or sand (I always start out with reeds that are a bit too hard and work them down in certain areas to make them respond better), and by a sort of graininess or lack of center to the sound. Soft cane is easy to gouge and dig into when scraping with a knife (even a really good sharp one), while dense cane will scrape evenly.
A reed I've found to work surprising well on bass clarinet (after 15+ years of aging) is the Frederick Hemke tenor sax reed, which used very thin but dense cane. I recall them being pretty bad players when new, but now I get good results (talking about #5 strength Hemkes to correspond roughly to #4 Vandorens).
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2014-12-19 07:53
David -
Bet you never found a good Vibrator reed, though.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2014-12-19 19:52
David Spiegelthal wrote,
>A reed I've found to work surprising well on bass clarinet (after 15+ years of aging) is the Frederick Hemke tenor sax reed, which used very thin but dense cane.>
I was sorry to see Hemke Premium reeds go off the market. I've hoarded a few, because they work well for me on alto and tenor saxophone, though less well on a Selmer alto clarinet.
Ken Shaw wrote,
>Bet you never found a good Vibrator reed, though. >
Had to laugh when I read that, Ken. Yup. Interesting, innovative designs don't always work. Of all the "new old stock" reeds I've tried out after finding them in original packaging in cases with used clarinets, the Vibrators were the worst. Anybody know how long Vibrators remained on the market?
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: William
Date: 2014-12-19 20:16
Ken wrote, "for practice, it's Legere all the way".
I would modify that to say, "For me, it's synthetic reed all the way, every way I play--orchestra, wind ensemble or jazz." My main reed of choice is Forestone on all my clarinet and saxophones, but with my new Walter Grabner K-11* model mouthpiece, I am having very good success with Legere Sigs and Harry Hartmann models. Many of my old V12's also play very well, but they are all different in response and just don't last, even through a single gig. And for those of you that say your would "never" use a synthetic reed for serious performance, I would say "it's all in your head". There is little or no credible difference in tone quality between cane and synthetic--it's just a matter of getting used to the new "feel" of synthetic and simply, how it plays. I have never had a negative comment regarding the sound of any of my instruments, only positive--most being "surprised" that my reed is synthetic.
For me, synthetic ALL THE WAY, EVERY DAY. tvm
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Author: cxgreen48
Date: 2014-12-19 21:15
I tried a 4.5 Forestone, which was ok, but I the upper clarion and altissimo was very flat and couldn't be brought up to pitch. Also I noticed the back of the reed wasn't even flat when checked on a piece of glass, which seemed very strange to me for a synthetic reed.
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Author: cxgreen48
Date: 2014-12-22 01:52
I've always found the reeds that sound the best (most vibrant, resonant) are the ones that warp the most easily as well. I wonder if these are also the non-soft/spongy ones as well...
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2014-12-22 17:11
But back on the original subject of "plain old Ricos" -- after trying out a few unopened ones I found with the hard rubber, Buescher 2 mouthpiece that was in the case with my 1926 bass saxophone, I raced off to every music store in the Washington, D. C. area and bought up all I could find. I think the mouthpiece is probably the same vintage as the sax.
Only one store had any of those old Rico reeds marked for contra-alto clarinet, contrabass clarinet and bass saxophone: the late, lamented Dale Music. The cashier told me the store had stocked those reeds decades earlier for the previous owner of my bass sax, who'd go in there and buy just one reed at a time! She was delighted to sell me the rest, which had been sitting there unloved. I've still got a few that I've hoarded because I haven't found anything else I like as well. I've found that they don't last quite as long as newer reeds and they wear out all of a sudden: one day I've got the perfect reed and the next day it falls apart with multiple splits.
Those "plain old Ricos" didn't work out as well with the Selmer C* mouthpiece for my 1980s-era Selmer Bundy contra-alto clarinet. For that mouthpiece and instrument, I do better with Rico Royal #3 reeds sized for baritone sax. I'm glad because the bass sax doesn't have to compete with the contra for the few remaining old Ricos, and of course the Royals are no problem to get. I tried Rico Royals because of a recommendation on this forum, btw.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2014-12-23 23:00
IMHO, a fresh "Orange Box" of Rico is not terrible. I've used them in outdoor band concerts in the last few months. I was really surprised how well they played and sounded on a selected MP.
I dig through 45 year-old reed tackle box occasionally and find one or two great antique Vandorens (original) that play well and are very stable ... and some that were played for a while and then put away. I didn't understand how to adjust and balance reeds several decades ago, so I rejected a lot more reeds than I should have ... It's worth revisiting old reeds, especially if you adjustment skills have improved and your hardware changed or improved.
Tom
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Author: Johnny Galaga
Date: 2014-12-27 04:18
I recall starting out in sixth grade, our director gave us Rico reads and I always had the impression that Rico was considered a low-tier quality reed for beginners.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2014-12-28 22:23
>>I recall starting out in sixth grade, our director gave us Rico reads and I always had the impression that Rico was considered a low-tier quality reed for beginners.
>>
Yes, that was the impression I got when I first started playing Bb soprano clarinet in 1957 and afterwards. (I'm an amateur.) My experiences with reeds (fresh from the music store, not aged) agreed with that teaching at the time and more recent experiences haven't changed my mind.
The good experiences I've had with "plain old Ricos" were with old but previously-unplayed reeds that had sat around aging for years or even decades. Also, I've liked the well-aged plain Ricos for the larger instruments much better than those for soprano clarinet, maybe because the heftier size makes for less sensitivity to details of reed quality and construction. I've never found other aged, basic Ricos I liked nearly as well as the ones for bass sax that I described above.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2014-12-28 23:22
I see, and hope others see Rico being to the reed business, what, say, GM of Ford is to the auto business. They have many product lines, from ok, to fancy, designed with different cost structures for different markets. And it would be wrong, I think, to see diversified companies as being only as good as their entry level brand...much as several posts here have looked at that entry level reed brand with fond memories.
40 years ago the first words my teacher told me were, "why don't you put the tip of the this (a Rico reed) in your mouth while I get the instrument assembled." They were words that would begin a lifetime of joy.
Post Edited (2014-12-28 23:35)
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