 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ben Shaffer
Date: 2014-12-25 22:54
I'm a fairly new player, learning the Clarinet on my own.
I've got a question about the proper placement of the Rosvner Lite Ligature on the Mouthpiece.
In this case it a a Woodwinds Vito 11 mouthpiece.
Where exactly should the ligature line up with the mouthpiece?
The Mouthpiece has both a lower and upper scribe line around the Mouthpiece and the Ligature has 2 lines around it as well .
The lines on the Ligature are closer together than the lines on the Mouthpiece and then the ligature body itself is somewhat wider than the scribe lines around the mouthpiece.
So should the bottom of the ligature itself line up with the lower scribe mark on the mouthpiece or should the lower scribe line on the ligature line up with the lower scribe mark on the Mouthpiece?....
when I do the latter I notice the Clarinet has a much fuller , louder sound
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2014-12-25 23:31
Ben:
I admit to having limited knowledge of both your specific mouthpiece and ligature.
And yet, I can't help but wonder if you're asking the right question.
To point: I often wonder if ligature placement is better of function of where it sits on the reed being played, rather than the mouthpiece in question.
Now don't get me wrong, that ligature best finds itself snugging around the mouthpiece below the window opening, and around the base of the reed as it sits on the mouthpiece table. It's not as if placement of that ligature doesn't matter with respect to the mouthpiece, but rather, if your "guidelines" best be the specifics of that mouthpiece's window placement and table, and where the base of the reed falls on the mouthpiece table, rather than some lines scribed into the mouthpiece.
I don't mean to imply that careful thought wasn't given into where those lines were drawn by the manufactuer, but rather that ligature heights and reed lengths can vary.
Somewhat of a far fetched example, but nonetheless one which I hope serves the point, invision yourself in posession of only shorter Eb clarinet reeds for your presumably Bb clarinet. I suggest, without compromising the principles above, that you line that ligature up with the base of the reed, more so than (but certainly cognizant of) scribe lines.
Specific to your situation, as long as you don't violate these principles it probably doesn't matter much where you place the ligature with respect to scribe line alignment, but I personally would tend towards higher over lower placement of the ligature. Others may disagree, and I'd like to hear why.
Here's the foundation of my beliefs. Sometimes I get the impression, perhaps wrongly, that some clarinetists are of the belief that loosening the ligature allows the reed to vibrate more freely.
Consistent with Thomas Shuffield's contributions on another post, I too see the reed not much differently than a swimming pool diving board. To point: if you want the business end (tip) of that diving board to flex, (holding the distance from its base and its materials constant) you would want the stabilizing hardware of that diving board, furthest from the pool, to firmly be grabbing that base. Loose fittings would allow energy from the bouncing tip to be transfered to a wobbly base, and compromise the [safe] maximum flex of that board.
Towards that goal, it would seem that physics would suggest the snugger and higher ligature for the stiffer reed, and the looser and lower ligature for the weak one. And yet I seem to read about people doing the opposite???
One caveat: the snugger the base of the reed, the more it transfers energy from the vibrating tip than absorbs it. Said transfer of energy then falls upon all that in contact with the base of the reed: the ligature, mouthpiece, clarinet, air, you, and even back to the vibrating tip.
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Author: Brad Behn
Date: 2014-12-26 01:06
Many mouthpieces are designed with concave tables. And ligature placement on these types of mouthpieces impacts response, center, and hold. I find slightly concave mouthpiece tables not only improve response, but they improve a reed's performance by allowing a slight space for the reed's expansion, while maintaining a consistent relationship with the mouthpiece's facing. Whereas convex tables are much more finicky (and all too common on refaced and hand-lapped facings). Flat tables can perform beautifully but they are very rare, and require a proper and methodical technique to consistently and flawlessly render.
Regarding ligature placement, indeed experimentation is key. It is easy and fun to explore how ligature placement influences things. And over the course of time you will find a general area for your preferred placement. And that is where your mouthpiece's ligature line/s can come in handy, as they can give you a quick visual reference as to your preferred placement.
Brad Behn
http://www.clarinetmouthpiece.com
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2014-12-26 01:49
Start out in the middle, with the top and bottom of the ligature equal distances from the top and bottom lines on the mouthpiece. Then experiment higher and lower to find which position suits you and the particular reed.
There's no "right" way. Stanley Drucker sets his ligature as low as possible. Elsa Ludewig-Verdehr sets it as high as possible. Reginald Kell and Benny Goodman rotated their (metal) ligatures 45 degrees to the side so that only two bands crossed the reed.
As you experiment, be sure to keep the tightening tension the same. I was taught to tighten the screw(s) very snug and then back off 1/4 turn, which has worked for me for over 50 years. Luyben says to make them as tight as possible. Rovner says to set the single screw as loose as possible.
Kalmen Opperman taught me to sand the edges to make the reed very slightly narrower than the rails, and then to move the tip from side to side in microscopic amounts to find the most resonant location. Always make sure that there are no leaks, particularly at the corners.
All my mouthpieces have flat tables. I sand the bottoms of my reeds to make them flat and shiny and check them frequently to make sure that no impression of the window has appeared.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Ben Shaffer
Date: 2014-12-26 02:18
As a new player I thought at first, by God I need to set the ligature with the scribe. I was doing that and then on a lark I lowered the ligature to close to the bottom of the reed and of course lower on the Mouthpiece, ignoring the scribe marks on both the Ligature and MP.
I was struck by how much the volume increased.
So the answers I've got really confirm what I suspect you have to do, that is experiment and let the ensuing sound be your guide
Many Thanks for the responses!
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