 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: tylerleecutts
Date: 2014-12-05 09:31
So, I'm thinking about switching ligatures. I've tried out everything, and have a few all-time favorites:
1. Buffet Crampon stock ligature. Surprisingly, it is very vibrant, responsive and resonant. Only drawback is that the metal is rather thin and bends rather easily.
2. The Masters M/O ligature, ONLY in the black plating. Somehow, this plating gives the cleanest response with the best overtones.
3. Bonade regular orientation ligature. I have tried one, but I do not remember if it was properly shaped- the sides of the reed may have gotten contact from the ribs.
4. Vandoren Optimum Ligature, modified: I took my Optimum and smoothed out the plate with 4 nubs in it. Essentially, I created a Penzel-Mueller ligature, with a smooth curved plate to fit the reed. It plays great, but tends to scratch the mouthpiece.
Now, my biggest concern with these ligatures (and metal ligatures in general) has NOTHING to do with how they play. However, it has everything to do with my mouthpiece. I am concerned that in storage or in setting up the ligature, I may scratch the mouthpiece table or any other component of the mouthpiece, excluding the body. Body scratches are almost unavoidable, but thankfully don't effect anything.
What I would really like to try is a gold plated Bonade, in the regular orientation. However, only Taplin Weir carries these ligatures, and there are no trials offered. . . Also, the Buffet ligature is the best one, but the hardest to find and purchase, since it is technically a "replacement" item.
I'm playing on several different ligatures right now, mainly a Versa X and a Rovner light. I just want more ping and a cleaner response, as well as more highs in the sound.
Post Edited (2014-12-05 09:32)
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-12-05 10:03
The ligature I use 99% of the time is the Vandoren Optimum with the vertically-grooved plate, but I've also messed around with using a German-style string ligature from time to time. It's not quite as ping-y as metal ligatures like Optimum, but it's not at all muffled like some other fabric ligatures I've tried - it's very resonant. Of course the downside is the inconvenience of having to tie and untie your ligature every time you want to put a reed on the mouthpiece (which is the main reason I don't use it more often), but it certainly won't scratch the mouthpiece if that's a concern.
(I've found it useful to know how to tie a string ligature anyways, regardless of whether or not I use it often. I was at a music camp last summer, and they decided to have me play Eb clarinet on a couple of pieces. I'd never played before, so they gave me an Eefer to borrow and I cut down a Bb reed, but the metal ligature didn't fit the thicker Bb reed. I was able to tie a string ligature instead which worked just fine.)
Post Edited (2014-12-05 10:40)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-12-05 13:53
One you might try similar in response to the numbered ligatures you mention is the Ishimori that is leather with a wooden plate for contact with the reed. It is very responsive, yet there would be no scratches to the mouthpieces whatsoever (I think they retail around $120). Try Robertos Sax shop in NY.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: Carmelo
Date: 2014-12-05 18:43
Hi Tyler,
I have a standard Bonade ligature silver plated and a BG traditional ligature silver plated as well that I know longer use. I took the cork out of the BG to give it a little more liveliness to the sound. I would be more than happy to send them to you if you want. There just sitting and I am sure you could make them work for you. Send me an email with your mailing and contact info and I can send them out to you.
Carmelo
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Author: cxgreen48
Date: 2014-12-05 20:57
Have you tried the Luyben ligature? I recently switched back to this after playing on my cut-out Bonade inverted for several years now and found it opened up my sound and it won't scratch the mouthpiece because its plastic.
Post Edited (2014-12-05 21:43)
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2014-12-05 21:20
Put a junk reed on the mouthpiece, and then put the ligature on when you store it. Or a plastic reed (used legere or something). This way the ligature will NEVER touch the table of the mouthpiece and that alleviates ANY chance of it getting scratched from the ligature.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2014-12-05 23:14
I'm, while respectful of other player's differing thoughts and experiences, not one to do much in the way of ligature shopping and changes, as long as what I'm playing (a Rovner) performs the basic things a ligature needs to do, like have a reliable screwing mechanism, etc.
(Mouthpieces, on the other hand, don't get me started.)
But regardless of how I feel about them, what might help you find your next ligature is expressing what it is, if anything, about your existing one, that you feels falls short, or equally important, what you think it does well and you wish to retain in your next ligature.
Maybe you're just in the mood to change, try new things, tinker--which is cool by me.
Post Edited (2014-12-05 23:15)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-12-06 00:25
I have a Silverstein, buying one without hesitation due to many of the design factors looking good and I liked the sonic results (even purchased over the Ishimori I described above) on my M13.
However,
Once I got it, there was an apparent issue over the ease with with it goes on (and stays on). I was breaking in reeds at the time and just found it easier to use the M/O during this process. Somehow I never got back to the Silverstein (can't even tell you why......but DON'T tell my wife !!!). There is something that "feels" complicated about it once I'm "in the moment" that just makes me reach for something else.
I am also currently auditing acrylic mouthpieces. With acrylic I don't seem to hear much of ANY difference in sound from one ligature to the next and the M/O is about as nice and simple as they come!
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: Ed
Date: 2014-12-06 01:49
I have used an old reed blank on the mouthpiece when storing it. As mentioned above, an old reed would also do the job. It keeps the ligature place and avoids harming the table and rails.
I don't really worry about scratching the body of the mouthpiece. If you are, you could line the ligature with a very thin layer of cork, but I do find that changes the qualities of the ligature.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2014-12-06 02:53
Try rubber O-rings, about 3/16" thick material ... the top one the size of a nickle and the bottom one slightly larger. Really opens the sound up ... I stole this idea from another thief ...
Rico's ligature similar to the Harrison H ligature is surprisingly OK ... IMHO works better than it looks like it might ... I don't know the theory behind the design.
I've used Rovner mostly in past but now back to 36" waxed dress shoestring ... cost is 2 for $1.80 ... The "string" ligature is easy to apply (15 seconds) and holds my plastic and cane reeds to my standard French MP (no grooves) with no problems ... I keep my Rovner at close reach, in case I get caught with not enough time to wrap the string ...
Many ligatures claim performance "approaching a string ligature" ... so why not just use real string?
Biggest disadvantage of string is it staying in place when swapping clarinets ... maybe the Pyne ligature might be the answer?
Tom
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Author: chris moffatt
Date: 2014-12-06 03:51
I'll believe in string when I see Schorn and the Ottensamers using it. The best ligature for you is the one that works for you, as you can see from the comments above. This you can only learn by trial, trial and more trial of ligatures. And please forget any notion that the plating on a ligature affects the sound. It ain't good physics even if it is good marketing.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2014-12-06 04:04
Quote:
I have a Silverstein, buying one without hesitation due to many of the design factors looking good and I liked the sonic results (even purchased over the Ishimori I described above) on my M13.
However,
Once I got it, there was an apparent issue over the ease with with it goes on (and stays on). I was breaking in reeds at the time and just found it easier to use the M/O during this process. Somehow I never got back to the Silverstein Man. I bought one lickety split once I tried it. FANTASTIC! I now have one for my clarinet, alto sax, and also tenor sax.
Yup, it's a little complicated, but once you set it up, just tighten it and play! Try it again, Paul!
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: TomS
Date: 2014-12-06 08:20
For me, there has been a real and unexpected difference in ligatures ... more careful scientific research could be used to identify what is truly going on ...
I think most of the difference is what comes to your ears and less of what the customer hears. But, it's really there ... you can hear it even on marginal, compressed MP3 recordings ...
Now (don't get me started) ... stuff like audiophile connecting cables ... I don't know about this. On one famous double blind test, some listeners selected "barbed wire" over $2000.00 woven silver Litz wire. I think the Charlatans are more effective in the high-end audio world than selling clarinet accessories.
Maybe twisted barbed wire would make a great ligature.
Tom
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2014-12-06 08:25
Mr. Aviles:
If the Silverstein's allure comes from offering the best of string ligature's acoustics/feel, while at the same time providing conventional ligature's tightening mechanism, and....
it presents issues with going and staying on, might Tom S' approach be cheaper and more effective?
In fairness to Silverstein, when working properly, subtle changes in its reed grip don't require reapplication of the ligature, just tightening of the screw, as in the case of a conventional string ligature, and your issues with placement and position may not be prevalent amoung other product owners, or involve a subtle learning curve as Alexi suggests.
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Author: tylerleecutts
Date: 2014-12-06 10:14
Thank you all for the interesting comments! I will try to address them in order. .
Paul, I would like to try the Ishimori ligatures, but in my opinion, the price point of them makes them unattractive to me as a metal ligature. Since metal is so malleable, it is too much of a risk for me to buy a metal ligature that I can drop or knock around and ruin.
Carmelo, you should be getting an email from me soon! I would love a silver Bonade.
Cxgreen, I have a Luyben ligature. It's a great ligature, but mine stripped very quickly. I was doing reed tests at the time I started using it, and it stripped when I was going back and forth between reeds of different blank thicknesses. When I would go from a 56 rue lepic to something like a blue box Vandoren, it would be constantly stretched or over-tightened to get a good fit on the reed. Obviously I could buy a bunch of them to prevent running out, but I would rather know that my ligature will last a bit longer.
Alexi, an old reed would work well, except for the fact that the pressure of having a reed on the mouthpiece at all times could warp the table. Also, the mouthpiece needs to rest and dry out when its not being used, and constantly having a reed on the mouthpiece can detrimentally affect it.
Hurstfarm, I have tried the Silverstein, and it's really not that great. A lot of times players get a placebo affect from expensive gear, and THINK they are hearing a difference, but really in double-blind tests it would be highly unlikely that a beneficial effect could reasonably be detected.
TomS, I agree with you on string. String is a VERY good material for ligatures. However, it is so difficult to really get a firm hold on the reed and mouthpiece for switching clarinets, swabbing, etc. . It has costs and benefits.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-12-06 13:55
Some clarifications are in order:
The Ishimori I refer to is a LEATHER pouch. It contains a small 'plate' made of wood that comes in contact with the read.......no bending, there is no metal.
The Siverstein does NOT offer either the acoustics OR the feel of a string ligature. Far from it. It is made of some high tech cabling. It sounds more like a super resonant Optimum, or a Vandoren Leather with the Metal plate, or the high end leather/metal BGs, or the LEATHER Ishimori to which I referred (that is NOT metal). My problem is with the screw on the TOP. You have to consciously turn your clarinet to remove the reed, or put it on (I know a stupid point but it makes a difference to me). Storage in the case is difficult because you have to turn the mouthpiece one way or the other so the big screw fits, but then it almost (or actually does) rub against the keywork of one joint of the clarinet or another. It's almost as if the Silverstein violates some sort of basic 'convenience' factor.....it goes just a bit too far from convenient. Also I don't know what will happen when the little rubber feet that actually touch the top of the mouthpiece wear down.
............Paul Aviles
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Author: Ed
Date: 2014-12-06 16:29
Quote:
an old reed would work well, except for the fact that the pressure of having a reed on the mouthpiece at all times could warp the table. Also, the mouthpiece needs to rest and dry out when its not being used, and constantly having a reed on the mouthpiece can detrimentally affect it.
I don't tighten the ligature, but merely slide it on. It places very little pressure on the mouthpiece. I always dry the mouthpiece after playing and then follow this practice and have never had any warping or adverse effects.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2014-12-06 20:58
To Original Poster,
You can also buy a cheap rovner dark which is a leather ligature and use that loosely on the mouthpiece for storage, and then use whatever ligature you want for playing.
Re: Tom's post above on ligature differences...
I agree that most of the difference seems to be felt/heard in the player's head rather than in the audience. So when I pick ligatures, I go by feel, not sound. The Silverstein certainly sounds resonant, but the reason I bought it right away was it seemed to make tonguing easier and more responsive without making the sound any harsher.
US Army Japan Band
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Author: cxgreen48
Date: 2014-12-06 22:01
Tyler,
Hmm, i have heard of Luyben ligs stripping, however I have never had this problem with mine and it is the only one I have ever owned. I have also used the same ligature on several different mouthpieces and reeds of different sizes and never had a problem. Perhaps I am one of the lucky ones...
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Author: TomS
Date: 2014-12-06 22:32
The Luyben has metal screws but plastic threads on the ligature body. If you could drill out the plastic threads and press-fit and glue a real threaded metal insert, you would have a more reliable product.
The Gigigliotti (sorry, wrong spelling?) ligature was plastic but had all metal mating screw threads ... didn't like the design much, though ...
I think a ligature needs the flexibility to conform to each reed's geometric variations. I don't know how weight, plating, contact points, etc. effect the performance ... more scientific research is due.
If things are this crazy and tweaky, I can believe that small variations in the outer geometry and material of bells and barrels can have a really significant effect (let alone the internal acoustics). These pieces of the clarinet are not damped with keys, clamps, lips and hands and are free to vibrate on their own, decoupled somewhat from the rest of the instrument by the compliance of the cork joints.
Wow! The mind boggles!
Tom
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-12-06 22:51
Just to add to what "TomS" just said:
Bells are much more INTEGRAL to the overall sound of the clarinet (with all due respect to the idea of "decoupling") than one might think without having had some practical experience of one NOT working right.
I had a bell crack on me, one minute it was just fine, the next it was cracked. Unless you've played on a cracked bell you wouldn't know just what a stark difference there is! The entire clarinet sounded more kazoo-like. There was much less resonance, particularly (and as one might expect) in the last half of the horn.
So what gives here? The geometry is the same. The material is the same. The only difference was that the bell was no longer a solid, resonant piece of wood, but it was now split only by a hairline crack that went from the flare almost completely to the socket.
I noted quickly (to try and appreciate this difference in other ways) that a healthy bell will have a "ping" to it when you strike it with a knuckle (holding as little of the socket part as you can). It sounds like a Marimba bar or a clave. The cracked bell, when stuck, sounded hollow and dead like any ordinary chunk of wood.
So not only the shape of the architecture is important, but also the integrity of the architecture is important.
There is a custom available to shoppers at custom clarinet builders in Germany and Austria where you can actually go to pick your own billets before fabrication by striking them in such a way as to hear this "ping." You then decide which billet you prefer based on the "ping" you prefer from the billet. Then the billets YOU chose become your clarinet.........I like this.
....................Paul Aviles
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Author: tylerleecutts
Date: 2014-12-07 00:40
TomS, I would love to try to fix my luyben ligature in the way you describe.
Paul, my issue isn't something to do with a bell. . It's simply a ligature issue.
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Author: Bob Barnhart ★2017
Date: 2014-12-07 00:46
For years I would only play Rovner ligatures (light or MkIII) or a german string ligature, believing that they would produce the best sound.
Over the last year I decided to do an objective assessment of all my ligatures and surprisingly discovered that (for me at this point in my life) an old Harrison ligature actually worked best--it gave a livelier/rounder sound than any of the Rovners as well as an inverted Bonade, and was a good choice for orchestral work. The current Rico-H ligatures were "similar": perhaps a bit "darker" but not as even/lively/round in sound.
I happened to try a friends Optimum (vertical rails) and we really impressed (even though years ago it did not work for me). I ordered one and it became my favorite because of its solid construction, quick/solid tightening and flexibility (i.e., the 3 plates really offered some options). For me the horizontal rails seem to be the best compromise between tone and freedom.
Some colleagues were raving about the Lomax Classic (like the inverted Bonade with a Kangaroo-leather strip instead of rails) so I tried applying different materials to the (unmodified) Optimum's 4-dot "flat" plate (which by itself felt a bit "brash"). I fitted a section of a Vandoren mouthpiece patch to the plate, but found this unsatisfactory (it kind of killed the sound/response). However, to my surprise, I tried a rectangle of Scotch 3M 4010 Clear (foam) double-sided "Mounting Tape" (which has a red-plastic backing). THIS material is a GREAT interface between the ligature and reed. It adapts completely to the shape of the reed, eliminating pressure spots. It seems to yield a nice warm sound without appreciably impairing response. This is well worth a try!
Recently, a friend bought me an Ishimori "brushed satin" ligature (I think it's copper with a brushed gold plating), partly. This is a surprisingly great ligature, although it's still expensive. Unlike the (inverted) Bonade and the Optimum+vertical-rails, which seem to constrict the sound, the Ishimori provides a big, focused, dense, warm sound. Although it seems like an oxymoron, I would describe the feeling as free with a comforting degree of resistance.
Anyway, the lesson here is that we should always keep an open mind and realize that we (and the requirements on our playing) do change with the years. It can be very helpful to keep an open/objective mind and be willing to consider and evaluate new approaches, techniques, equipment, etc., that may improve our playing.
Bob Barnhart
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Author: GLHopkins
Date: 2014-12-07 01:17
I've used Luyben ligatures since '67, both black and opaque, and have never had one strip out.
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Author: tylerleecutts
Date: 2014-12-07 10:11
That sounds like some good luck!
I think my main problems with the Luyben I had was that I was trying out different sizes of reeds while I was technically "supposed" to be breaking the ligature in.
Post Edited (2014-12-07 11:11)
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Author: TomS
Date: 2014-12-07 20:34
Paul A: Cracked bell causing big difference ... makes perfect sense! The bell is more than just an acoustical path for the sound. I suspect the Liberty Bell's resonance suffered terribly when it partially cracked, even though the mass and basic geometry didn't change.
That is really cool about selection the wood for your instrument. We had a famous loudspeaker manufacturer here in Arkansas, Klipsch and Associates. At one time, you could go to the factory and select the veneered wood for your personal pair of Klipschorns. Of course, this was strictly cosmetic, but was still a neat thing to do ...
And the decoupling I referred to is just some small frequency-selective partial isolation from the adjoining sections of the clarinet. I wonder if the cork quality and especially synthetics have an effect?
There was a woodwind genius here in central Arkansas (call him Jim) that actually hand manufactured clarinets and harpsichords. He made the lower joint to transform my teacher's Yamaha A clarinet into a basset clarinet, for example. Jim maintained that sometimes, when an instrument cracked, and was properly repaired, it actually improved. Something about the stress in the wood being relieved ... sounds weird, but he said it happened sometimes ... I don't know how much the bore specifications could be returned to original, when banded or pinned ... maybe that was what accounted for the difference?
Tom
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Author: Jarmo Hyvakko
Date: 2014-12-08 19:59
Does anyone else play rovner platinum? Nice even scale. Pleasant soft sound. Holds the reed secure. Not too expensive. And you can use the traditional metal cap with it, stylish!
Jarmo
Jarmo Hyvakko, Principal Clarinet, Tampere Philharmonic, Finland
Post Edited (2014-12-08 20:01)
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Author: AAAClarinet
Date: 2014-12-08 21:02
Jarmo, I use the Rovner platinum. Its the best ligature I have ever used. I also very much like tying my own string ligature.
AAAClarinet
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Author: doctoxin
Date: 2014-12-09 17:01
I had been playing on the same Bonade ligature since 1968. It was purely for sentimental reasons. Robert Marcellus gave it to me along with his Casper Cicero 13 mouthpiece and his R13 Buffet Bb. I stopped playing professionally many years ago and opted for a PhD in toxicology/chemistry but kept playing off and on. Recently i retired from the Air Force and started playing again. I picked up a vintage Leblanc alto clarinet (swan neck) that was totally refurbished by Kim Klein (an excellent job). It plays and looks like a new horn.
Oh, the point is with ligatures. That's what happens when you get old, you digress. Anyway, at the recommendation of Michael Lowenstern I got Vandoren B40 and B44 mouthpieces and a Optima ligature. Then I got one and replaced my old Bonade on my Bb. What a huge difference in the sound. It was bigger, more control, but still my sound. Of course then I went out and got a Backun cocobolo bell and barrel and that also made changes to the positive.
Back to the ligature. Some say that the Optima is hype but after playing clarinet for 55 years I can tell you that it does make difference, mostly with the ease at which I can play and for an old guy like me with lung damage from too many combat tours it really helps.
Medical Decon LLC
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Author: tylerleecutts
Date: 2014-12-10 08:24
To kind of switch topics a bit-
What ligs would you all recommend (other than Silverstein, there's no way I'm spending that kind of money on a ligature) that have a MINIMAL amount of metal on them? Leather, string, otherwise. . Hybrid ligs that have metal plates covered by leather or fabric are fair game too.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-12-10 09:03
Gosh I just posted a new thread about the Freres ligature. Turns out they make a ligature that sells for $30.00 that has much of the design elements of the BG Revelations but which is actually leather AND uses a leather pad over the metal parallel rails (ala Bonade style).
It holds great, sounds great, and is a bargain at it's selling price.
Why on Earth hasn't anyone mentioned this ligature before?
................Paul Aviles
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Author: JEG ★2017
Date: 2014-12-11 21:15
I don't think I saw anybody mention that the Buffet ligature is available at Weinermusic.
I prefer metal ligatures of the simple variety, meaning Bonade and Buffet. To me there is little difference between the two, but the Buffet seems a little more responsive with a little more ring to the sound.
I've never had a problem with a metal ligature scratching the table of the mouthpiece, but if you are more comfortable putting an old reed on the mouthpiece you should do so. The only problem I had was with the threads on the Buffet ligature wearing out over time.
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Author: tylerleecutts
Date: 2014-12-14 21:56
Thank you all!
Mr. Carmelo graciously sent me three ligatures: a silver regular bonade, a BG silver traditional, and a Selmer lig.
The Bonade seems to work the best for me. As of right now, my rankings of what I have in stock are:
1. Bonade Silver
2. BG Traditional
3. Rovner Mark III
4. Selmer Lig
5. Rovner Versa-X (I only use the flaps on the reed)
Since the Bonade is properly shaped, the table is left untouched in storage. However, I can easily place the Bonade on the wooden dowel that I received with an old vandoren leather ligature, and put the Mark III on the mouthpiece to avoid any possible scratching. I'm waiting to see if I can find a good plastic cap to fit it, and I may just have the bonade in the case.
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Author: tylerleecutts
Date: 2014-12-15 09:06
After my second pairs of ears (friends and recording) a revised standing had been created:
1. Rovner Mark III
1.5 Bonade
2. BG Trad.
3. Versa X
4. Selmer
The Bonade and Rovner were so close. As the Mark III I have is breaking in, the preliminary tests weren't at all completely accurate. They both play great, but I believe the Rovner balances out the overtones quite nicely. The Bonade would work better in a dry acoustic, where I needed a bit more highs. Some of my friends honestly couldn't tell a difference, except that the Rovner sounded slightly louder.
Note: the Mark III is made out of a fabric much denser than the Dark or Light, and is much more resonant because of it. Also, the stiched-in rails act as a cradle, which send the vibrations all the way down the reed. The main thing I think suffered in the Bonade was that each reed was being held differently. If I could tweak it to get the rails to have a better contour, it may improve it.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-12-15 14:16
I have to ask:
You mentioned that you have (or tried) the Vandoren Leather. Had you used the metal plate that has the "Bonade" configuration? If so, since you do not come back to it at all, what is it about Vandoren Leather ligature that does NOT work for you the way the above ligatures perform?
............Paul Aviles
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Author: tylerleecutts
Date: 2014-12-15 20:14
First of all, my Vandoren leather ligature actually broke. The screws either stripped or screwed "into themselves" (hard to explain, but the length of the screw shortened quite a bit).
It was a pretty good ligature. However, like th Bonade, ultimately no matter how I balanced reeds, it behaved on certain ones differently. When I would put on the flexible Rovner light, it would make all of them play the same.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-12-16 05:19
Sorry to hear of the ill-fated Vandoren Leather. It is a very good ligature for me and it remains on my short list of "go-to" ligatures (with the metal plate that is).
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: tylerleecutts
Date: 2014-12-16 09:00
Seriously though- I'm amazed on how well the Mark III did. It's super-dense fabric, so it's almost in between a Rovner light and dark. Just right.
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Author: cxgreen48
Date: 2014-12-16 09:25
Tyler, can you describe the differences between your 3 Rovner ligs? I have a Dark, and I basically never use it because it is not free-blowing enough for me. Also I feel like it is harder to articulate compared to a metal ligature.
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Author: tylerleecutts
Date: 2014-12-16 19:42
I'll try to be the least subjective about this as possible. Actually, I was about to release a short Youtube video with me explaining the mechanical features I believe makes certain ligatures outperform others.
In my experience, I would describe the Rovners as:
Dark: Round, full sound. Can get muffled if overtightened. Articulation suffers some because the entire reed is covered.
Light: All of the great features of the Dark, without muffling the sound. I took my Light a step further and cut off a lot of material from the center. It appears like the vandoren MO ligature now, two narrow horizontal bands.
Mark III: For me, the ultimate Rovner configuration. No added metal in the ligature will keep your mouthpieces safe. The ligature acts as a cradle and keeps the center of the reed from being choked. This is similar to the Versa X and Versa ligatures, but without metal. In my experience, ligatures composed of one material resonate better than hybrids with multiple layers of material trying to vibrate.
Versa X: The Versa X with the flaps over the cradle is almost a cross between the Dark and Mark III. Rovner states it is the absolute darkest ligature they offer, which I agree. However, it can get too muffled in articulation. The sound is easily controlled, and I think it's characteristics would be very well-suited for chamber music.
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2014-12-17 04:03
In all this discussion of ligatures I'm surprised that no one is recommending the BG DUO both in silver and gold finish. These add depth and ping to the sound, touch the mouthpiece on fewer points than most other ligatures, hold securely if you have to change mouthpiece in the orchestra, and happen to be used by top pro players like Ricardo Morales and Julian Bliss.
Is the objection to the DUO that it might scratch the mouthpiece? How about all its other good qualities? For a good non-metal ligature, try the German GF. Pretty resonant for non-metal.
Post Edited (2014-12-17 06:19)
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Author: cxgreen48
Date: 2014-12-17 04:36
I would love to try a BG Duo if it wasn't so expensive.
Which rovner ligature do you find most free blowing Tyler?
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Author: tylerleecutts
Date: 2014-12-17 06:32
The objection to ligatures such as the BG Duo and the Silverstein is the price point. Ishimori and Momo could be added to the "Too Expensive Ligatures" short list.
Cxgreen, in my testing, the Mark III performed better in all regards to the light. It had equal distribution of pressure vertically, whereas the Light has unequal distribution. This distribution of pressure is important to maintain a good seal on the flat table. This is the main reason why many players enjoy the Dark. However, the Dark can be too muffled.
To be honest, the Mark III plays extremely favorably to the Bonade. My fiancee (although a euphonium player) could hardly tell a difference. Having her listen to equipment is very useful, because she hears things in my playing that I don't. I didn't even hear that I was grunting before starting lower pitches before she showed me. . She has a very good ear.
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-12-18 01:38
Clark Fobes offers those on his website as well. My teacher switched to one from the VD Optimum recently. I tried it briefly; it has a very clear, "ping"y sound like the Optimum, but it seems even clearer.
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2014-12-18 02:18
Thanks, maxopf, for the added source and for you review.
I compared the websites and found the prices and no return policy to be the same. The differences I found were: Clark has his for Bb and bass while Brad has his available for Bb, Eb, and bass. Also, each offered a unique metal not carried by the other. Although it might seem like small things, Brad offers a free cap and free shipping during December only.
A huge difference between the websites, IMO, is that Brad goes through an exhaustive, descriptive, detailed explanation about the ligature whereas there are no remarks on Clark's website that I could find.
I would like to hear from others who have tried the "Ishimori Woodstone" ligature.
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Author: gkern
Date: 2014-12-18 02:29
The Robert Vinson Equatone Ligature, made of polypropylene (seems to be a semi-soft somewhat flexible plastic material) is my favorite. Uses only one metal screw which is a definite plus. I had been using the Rico H and the Bois lig, but the Vinson seems to give the best tone. Low price may be a turnoff to some folks...
Gary K
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2014-12-18 02:46
Don,
I've tried the gold plated, the brushed gold, and the pink gold-plated Ishimoris. They tend to give a rich, full sound but not quite as focused and centered as BG Duos. My favorite out of the Ishimoris is the pink gold-plated which favors legato connections over wide intervals.
The pink gold-plated model is available in the US from Professional Wind Instrument Consultants in New Jersey
http://www.pwicnj.com/Ishimori_Ligatures.html.
Post Edited (2014-12-18 03:05)
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Author: tylerleecutts
Date: 2014-12-18 02:48
I appreciate what Mr. Behn has done in his lengthy analysis of ligatures.
The reason I have ultimately came back to more flexible ligatures is their ability to conform to the mouthpiece's shape, as well as different cuts of reeds.
My biggest issue with metal ligatures is that they must be retrofitted to each mouthpiece, assuming your mouthpiece is not the same shape to which the ligature was calibrated.
For instance: Take a Vandoren mouthpiece (any one will do) and a Reserve mouthpiece. The Reserve is slimmer at the bottom, which can be seen by the naked eye very easily. To make my Bonade work (which it does very well), I had to retrofit it to the shape of my X0.
Ultimately, the Mark III simply played better. Any of my metal ligatures played differently to each reed, since the pressure points may not fully work on reeds not perfectly cut in the butt's contour.
Post Edited (2014-12-18 02:50)
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-12-18 06:12
Dan Shusta: I believe there may be a mistake on Clark Fobes's website; the top of the "Ligatures" page only says he carries Bb and bass ligatures, but if you scroll down, Bb, Eb, and bass, as well as soprano, alto, and tenor saxophone ligatures are listed.
http://www.clarkwfobes.com/ligatures.html
Post Edited (2014-12-18 06:14)
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2014-12-18 06:45
maxopf, Thanks for correcting me. That would make sense because Clark produces saxophone mouthpieces besides his clarinet line.
seabreeze, The Pink Gold Plated is also available from Brad Behn. I have a question for you. With Clark and Brad offering a no return policy, did you try those 3 separate ligatures from Professional Wind Instrument Consultants in New Jersey?
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2014-12-18 23:31
Don,
I tried a friend's regular gold-plated one first and liked it and then ordered one from Clark Fobes. When, Behn started to offer the brushed gold as well, I bought one from him. Next I tried a friend's pink gold and liked that one the best. Don't know of anyone letting you try them on trial. The regular gold-plated is the most focused and centered; the brushed satin finish puts more of a "halo" on the sound, and the pink, my favorite, adds a little loft or cushion to the tone. If I want max intensity, focus, and center, I still use a BG Duo though.
They are all good--just depends on what you want and the music your're playing. The Bob Scott ligatures from Muncy (Scott's own, not the F. L Kaspar copies) are also very good.
Post Edited (2014-12-19 08:32)
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2014-12-19 01:10
Hi everyone,
I just took another look at Brad Behn's Ishimori Woodstone ligature website page. I was truly surprised to see the phrase: "Yes, Trials are Welcome." I had to go all the way to the bottom of the page to see it. As you go further down the page, Brad explains, again in great detail, what to basically expect as to sound changes between the 4 metal combinations that are used.
I had no idea that different metal combinations could produce such distinct changes in sound.
No one else offers trials. I even emailed Professional Wind Instrument Consultants in New Jersey and I was told that they have a "no return" policy, which I interpret as a "no trials allowed" policy.
So, I may be wrong, however, it appears that Brad Behn is the only one offering trials on the Ishimori Woodstone ligature.
If you're curious to know more, please click below:
http://www.clarinetmouthpiece.com/ligatures/
Disclaimer: I have no business association whatsoever with Behn Mouthpieces.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-12-19 07:07
Attachment: Kodama II.jpg (164k)
Just in case there was any confusion, the Ishimori to which I referred is the Woodstone Kodama II:
.............Paul Aviles
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The Clarinet Pages
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