 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: manom
Date: 2014-11-30 02:31
Hello all,
This is my first ever post and am thrilled to be a part of the Clarinet BBoard. I have started this post as I know there are many great players and people here, and I needed some advice. I have decided it is time for me to upgrade and part from my beloved Vandoren M15 mouthpiece. For reference, I currently play on a Buffet R13, Vandoren V12 3.5, Rovner Versa lig and the standard barrel that came with my Buffet. For my mouthpiece upgrade, I have my eyes on the Clark W Fobes San Francisco mouthpiece and the Gigliotti one. I was wondering if anyone has played both of this mouthpieces, as I would love to hear what you thought of each of each of them. Also, would you recommend I get a different barrel as well? Looking forward to the responses!
Mani
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Author: kdk
Date: 2014-11-30 03:05
Do you have Fobes and Gigliotti (are you talking about the P facing?) mouthpieces available to try? The two are similar in their approach to sound and response, but there are differences that you will hear and feel as soon as you start to play on either of them.
To get a little more basic, what is it about the result you're getting from the M15 that you want to improve? Moving from an M15 (or any of the Vandoren mouthpieces) to something like a Gigliotti P or Fobes San Francisco isn't the same thing as upgrading from an entry level mouthpiece you found in the case when you bought a student clarinet. The Vandoren series is meant to be usable at the professional level and, indeed, there are well-known players (whose names come up here whenever these mouthpieces are discussed) who play on them very publicly and successfully in high-pressure jobs. So, either of the mouthpieces you ask about, or any other high level mouthpiece for that matter, will only be an "upgrade" if it helps you do something you can't easily do on the M15.
They are both excellent mouthpieces, so you really need to get your hands on a coup[le of each (order them on approval from any of several online outlets) and compare them for yourself.
BTW, the ligature and reeds you use on your M15 are irrelevant to the choice of mouthpieces - you'll need to re-evaluate all of it once you make a decision to switch. As to a barrel, make one major change at a time. The barrel will have much less influence over the way the whole system plays than the mouthpiece will, so IMO, hold off on changing barrels until you're sure about your mouthpiece choice.
Keep in mind, though, that your equipment doesn't make the sound you produce - that comes from your imagination and the physical things you do when playing to control the result. Equipment only makes it easier or gets in the way of getting the result you want. If you don't know what result you're looking for, equipment changes may be pointless.
Karl
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Author: Carmelo
Date: 2014-11-30 03:53
Hi Mani,
Welcome to the board. If you are looking at the Fobes San Francisco go with the CF plus facing and try a few out to see how you like it. I have one and it really reed friendly. I would not go with the Gigliotti simply because he passed a long time ago and quality control is not good. Since you have an M15 then I would definitely reach out to Greg Smith and audition some of his Old Chedeville style facing. I currently play on his 1+ facing. He is really genuine in his approach to your needs. Both Smith and Fobes make their mouthpieces to play with v12 3.5 and 4 and or equivalent. I would go on to say that you can probably even play the v12 3 as I have in the past with splendid results. Its Christmas time go for it and have fun😄.
Carmelo
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Author: Ed
Date: 2014-11-30 03:59
I really like Clark's mouthpieces and agree that the CF+ is a great place to start. They are very reed friendly and comfortable to play. Clark seems to voice his pieces so they have a great ring and resonance in the sound. Because of the design and hand finishing, I would put it a good few notches above the Gigliotti.
You can get a a few on trial and pick the one that works best for you. I would not change anything else at the moment. Adjust to one new thing at a time and tweak it only when/if it needs it. It is SO easy to become an equipment nut and the next thing you know, you have a drawer full of stuff.
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2014-11-30 04:15
The M15 is a nice mouthpiece, and if it's working for you, don't switch. As others have pointed out, many professionals use them with great results.
If it's no longer working for you and you want to look for other choices, consider the Gennusa Excellente. I used a M15 for a few years, but switched because I found it wasn't the most comfortable mouthpiece to play. I'm very happy with the GE*, and it's reasonably priced.
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-11-30 06:31
I've never tried Gigliotti mouthpieces so I can't compare them, but I play on a Clark Fobes CWF mouthpiece and Clark Fobes barrels and they sound great - the mouthpiece has a great "ring" and clarity to it, much more than the M13 Lyre I played beforehand.
I was just on vacation in San Francisco and visited Clark Fobes's workshop a few days ago, as a matter of fact, and he gave me and my family a tour and showed us his mouthpiece-making and barrel-making processes. He's very meticulous with the mouthpieces. He orders oversized blanks with extra material (especially on the inside) so he has more freedom to ream them out and face them exactly to his specifications, rather than being stuck with the dimensions of the unfinished blank, which aren't always consistent from blank to blank due to the nature of drying rubber. He then spends about 30 minutes play-testing each mouthpiece and hand-adjusting the voicing, tuning, etc. until they're spot on. It was actually really neat watching him work - you can really hear the improvement in tone each time he makes an adjustment. The sound starts out very dull and "closed," as he put it, then he adjusts the side rails, walls, ramp, bore, etc. and the sound sort of comes to life.
As for the barrel, it won't make as much of a difference as the mouthpiece will, but it's good to experiment with different barrels to see if one tunes and sounds noticeably better than others. Clark Fobes offers a few different options (Grenadilla, Cocobolo, rubber-lined Cocobolo, soon Delrin) and there are other well-known barrels out there (I can think of Moennig, Chadash, Backun...)
Post Edited (2014-11-30 06:37)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2014-11-30 20:02
There are so many good mouthpieces on the market today, including the ones you mentioned. The only way you will ever know what's best for you is to try as many as possible. And remember, no two of the same make and model are exaactly alike. Once you find that make and model you like best, try a few of those to pick the best one. What's good for one person may not be good for another. Many mail order stores will send you 3-4 on a trial basis.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2014-11-30 20:17
Having tried both mouthpieces, I can state that they are as different as any two could possibly be.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: kdk
Date: 2014-11-30 21:33
Alseg wrote:
> Having tried both mouthpieces, I can state that they are as
> different as any two could possibly be.
>
I have to disagree, respectfully. I can think of a number of mouthpieces on the market that are far more different from either of these than they are from each other.
They do have clear differences. And, I'm afraid, now that Gigliotti isn't around to keep an eye on their quality (although he wasn't a mouthpiece maker, he took part in their original design and watched the ongoing result), the newer Gigliottis are not the same product they once were. Clark Fobes is alive and (I hope) well and still produces his mouthpieces, so there is strong quality control with them.
Again, you need to try both and, as Ed says, more than one of each if possible. And if you find yourself confused and unable to choose, stay with your M15 until you have a better idea of what you want a new mouthpiece to help you do.
Karl
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Author: saxlite
Date: 2014-11-30 22:43
I can attest that Clark Fobes is indeed alive and appears to be quite well ( and very busy!). I visited him recently and he custom tweaked a barrel for my Selmer Series 10 II which greatly improved the tone quality. He 's very meticulous and alsoa good guy!
Jerry
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Author: manom
Date: 2014-12-01 02:20
Thank you all for your kind responses and insight! I have contacted both Clark Fobes and Gregory Smith, and am planning to try the CF+ and a few others from Clark, alongside the Chedeville style Greg offers. As Carmelo stated, Mr. Smith is indeed very geniune, planning a phone call with me to discuss what would best suit me. Hopefully I'll find something I like here, and I'll keep you all updated. Once again thank you for the advice.
Mani
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Author: tylerleecutts
Date: 2014-12-02 04:09
I use an M15 and love it. . I guess it's whatever works. I have played Fobes, Behn and the recent Reserve mouthpieces by D'Addario in the past and this M15 is my favorite.
Maybe choice of reeds is holding you back?
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2014-12-02 21:39
Clark is most assuredly alive and active, and a friend.
I tried AMG's mouthpiece when he still had control of the quality.
It was the P-model. It might have even been from the Otto Link series (original rubber formula).
I found that it sounded and responded-at least for me-- differently (very)-from the Fobes SF model that I tried which was closest in tip opening.
Perhaps I overstated the amount of difference, but , for me, it was considerable.
Clark's mpc was, of course, very well crafted.
I respect Karl's judgement (esp. since he has exceptional taste in barrels)
He may find the mouthpieces closer in overall response than did I, but that is why you have to try 'em to really get a handle on how they play for you.
ONE MORE IMPORTANT THING--Have plenty of reeds, both stronger and softer, on hand to try on any new mouthpiece. You will never get to know how a mouthpiece plays unless you have good reeds that work well with the mouthpiece.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
Post Edited (2014-12-02 21:47)
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2014-12-06 04:02
Alseg wrote:
> ONE MORE IMPORTANT THING--Have plenty of reeds, both stronger
> and softer, on hand to try on any new mouthpiece. You will
> never get to know how a mouthpiece plays unless you have good
> reeds that work well with the mouthpiece.
>
This will also give you an idea of how "reed friendly" the mouthpiece is. I'm not sure how to describe it, but I've got a crystal mouthpiece that sounds excellent with JUST the right reed on it. But I use a Grabner that sounds excellent with pretty much any reed. So I gravitate towards a reed-friendly mouthpiece over a reed-specific one simply because I don't like spending time working on reeds.
I've got a San Francisco right now, and my second mouthpiece (albeit over ten years ago) was a newer style gigliotti P (NOT from the otto link blank, although I did have an otto link gigliotti as well at one point).
Since they were so far apart, i couldn't tell you the difference. With the San Francisco, I really liked the ones I tried at clarinetfest, but the one I received in the mail just wasn't the same. It plays well, but just not as well as the ones at the festival did. Maybe it's cause I had more to choose from and the maker himself there to help guide me, but if you would like a san francisco, I'd try to contact him directly and have him help you choose. Not order willy-nilly from some site or store.
I also had a greg smith mouthpiece and it was fantastic. You've contacted good folks. But don't feel like you need to "upgrade" from an M15. And don't like a higher price sway you into thinking it's better. It just might end up that for you, the M15 is the best.
And lastly, give yourself (if you can) at least a week of trying the new mouthpiece. It does take a little bit to adjust to a new mouthpiece.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: TomS
Date: 2014-12-10 03:07
I noticed a lot of variation in the Gigliotti as well. I think the factory P facing (?) ... I had a friend that was (I think ...) sending them to Richard Hawkins (early 1990s) and having them worked on and greatly improved. One particular re-facing seemed like magic and had awesome response!
The Fobes Debut seems fairly consistent and I assume his pro MPs are better. If you find a really good Hite Premier, IMHO it's better than the Debut.
Tom
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Author: Ed
Date: 2014-12-10 03:20
Quote:
The Fobes Debut seems fairly consistent and I assume his pro MPs are better. If you find a really good Hite Premier, IMHO it's better than the Debut.
Although, since Clark works on the Debut, it is a better bet as Hite is no longer around to work on his.
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Author: tylerleecutts
Date: 2014-12-10 08:21
I agree- the debut is MUCH better than the premiere. I personally could barely get the premiere to work at all. .
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