 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-11-10 23:31
If I understand correctly, the low Eb key was added to modern Bb bass clarinets to accommodate for the range of the now-obsolete A bass clarinet when transposing from A to Bb. Similarly, the low Eb key was added to full-Boehm Bb soprano clarinets to provide an alternative to purchasing an A clarinet. Why have low Eb keys not been added to Eb piccolo clarinets to accommodate for the range of the D piccolo clarinet? Is it simply because there aren't enough low Es in D clarinet repertoire to justify extending the range of the Eb clarinet?
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Author: derf5585
Date: 2014-11-10 23:52
I think a Basset Eb sopranino clarinet would be a good idea. Extends the range almost to a soprano clarinet.
fsbsde@yahoo.com
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-11-11 00:05
If you added a low B key like some bassets have, it would match the low range of a Bb clarinet and the high range of the Eb clarinet. I wonder what the extra length would do to the characteristic Eb tone, though. Clark Fobes makes an Eb extension (not to play low notes, but just to fix tuning issues) and he says on his website that it changes the Eb's tone a little.
I've never tried a basset clarinet before (did get to try a low C bass once). Aren't the extra keys, especially the thumb keys, awfully awkward to maneuver?
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2014-11-11 00:18
There are a few full Boehm Eb clarinets around so having that low Eb.
However the vast majority of Ebs were for many years associated with miltary bands where clearly a low Eb is not needed and ruggedness and simplicity were key factors.
There is no doubt that adding a significant amount of extra tube to an instrument will affect it's tone and response.
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-11-11 05:41
Neat! I don't know why they don't make more full-Boehms.
I've always wondered, what does the extra banana key between the RH 1st and 2nd fingers (not on your Eb clarinet, but on the Bb and A) do? At one point I remember hearing it was related to C#/G#.
Anyways, what I was really wondering is why they don't add that low Eb key on all Eefers, full-Boehm or not. It seems like the logical thing to do since Ebs have mostly replaced D clarinets, the same way Eb keys are standard on all basses.
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2014-11-11 07:15
The only reason the Eb key is standard on basses is because the extra tone hole improves the middle B natural. This may not sound like a huge advantage but if you ever get the chance to try a low E only bass clarinet you will see what I mean. Very few pieces are for bass clarinets in A and many don't even go down to the low E.
As for the D vs Eb, most D clarinet parts (like Eb parts) stay well into the upper range of the instrument. The low E on a D clarinet (or conversely the low Eb on an Eb) can easily be covered by a Bb or A clarinet, and because it is not a bell note it will most likely be more in tune.
As for the full boehm clarinets, more than 90% of the ones I've seen have very bad cracking problems. I assume this is because of the added mechanism and the necessity to find a longer piece of wood for the lower joint. I assume this must be part of the reason they are so unpopular. I believe the "banana" key you refer to (commonly called a sliver key) is an alternate fingering for G#/C#.
-Jdbassplayer
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-11-11 07:30
Thanks for the explanation.
I don't remember who taught me the term banana key (maybe my middle school woodwind instructor?), but it stuck. I also call it a sliver key sometimes.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-11-11 07:54
The extra sliver key is for a C-Db/G-Ab/high E-F trill - basically an extra C#/G# touchpiece operated by RH finger 2.
My Eb has an articulated C#/G# key and had remnants of the sliver key (the touchpiece had been removed or broken off long ago) so I added the touchpiece to it, but it only got in the way and felt weird as it worked in the opposite way compared to the Bb/A clarinets as it's fitted to the pad cup key barrel instead of directly to the C#/G# lever key barrel, so as the ring keys were lowered (and the LH C#/G# touch held down), the RH2 C#/G# touchpiece went up.
I removed it completely, but fitted a nylon tipped adjusting screw to the linkage from the C#/G# pad cup to the ring keys as I cork padded it and wanted more precise adjustment instead of relying on cork.
As for banana keys, you normally find them on oboes - they're an additional low C key which is operated by the tip of RH3 to close the C key and free up the right pinky so a C-Db trill can be done. But on my oboe I've done away with it completely as it's an awkward key to use and instead fitted a LH C# key of my own design which oboes don't normally have (unless you buy a Hiniker oboe that has them fitted as standard or ask any oboe maker to fit one for you at time of order). The banana key is figure 3 in this photo (please excuse the poor quality oboe in the picture!):
http://accentmusicalinstruments.com/accent/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/OB791G-detail.jpg
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2014-11-11 15:35)
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-11-11 08:07
Right, I've seen that on my friend's oboe. I was under the impression that any "banana-shaped" woodwind key was called a banana key, but maybe it's an oboe-specific thing and my woodwind instructor was just getting key names mixed up.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-11-11 11:40
The low Eb fitted to Bb bass clarinets is there to give it the same lowest note as a bass clarinet in A (built to low E) and you'll find the bass clarinet part for Rachmaninov's 2nd symphony definitely descends to low E for bass in A (Concert Pitch C# as the chord is A Major), so the low Eb is needed on a Bb bass for this. I'm sure there are other examples, but I know that one for definite. If they built A bass clarinets to low C, then Rachmaninov may have used that note (Concert A) and that would mean Bb basses would then have to descend to low B - you can sort of get a low B on a Buffet Prestige bass by closing off the bell vent with the inside edge of your left shoe while playing low C.
As for full Boehms cracking more than any other clarinet, they are just as likely to crack as any other wooden clarinet and that's not due to extra keywork. Cracks mostly occur at the top end of the top joint on clarinets which on a full Boehm has no extra keywork compared to any other clarinet in this location. The top joints on full Boehm clarinets (and regular clarinets fitted with an articulated C#/G#) are the same total length - only the middle tenon has to be made longer as the C#/G# tonehole goes through it and there's no C#/G# key fitted to the top joint, so the tenon is cut further back to allow for a longer middle tenon.
The lower joint is longer at the socket end (with a deeper socket) and lower end due to the articulated C#/G# mechanism and to accommodate the low Eb, but without the low Eb, any clarinet (with separate joints) fitted with the kind of articulated C#/G# mechanism that has a tonehole going through the tenon and socket will still have the extra length at the socket end (about a tenon ring's width longer).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2014-11-11 16:03
>> The only reason the Eb key is standard on basses is because the extra tone hole improves the middle B natural. <<
If thta was the ONLY reason, then making a hole with no key and key assembly plus the adjustment needed would be significantly cheaper and achieve the exact same thing.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2014-11-11 19:55
Quote:
that would mean Bb basses would then have to descend to low B
I recall that Mazzeo had his bass clarinet modified by the people Powell flutes so that it would descend to low B. I believe that Dennis Smylie owns this instrument.
You can see the picture here-
http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/09/d5/25/09d525d99851fac409574b29f841b013.jpg
While the full Boehm certainly has fans, some players I have known did not like the extra weight and also felt that the extra mechanism was much more difficult to keep regulated. I don't think any of the makers offer much beyond the standard keyword and perhaps an alternate LH Eb key. I remember old catalogues where Selmer offered a number of different options for key work including the Mazzeo mechanism.
Post Edited (2014-11-11 19:56)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-11-11 20:09
The major makers offered everything from standard 17 key 6 rings through to full Boehms (B&H, Buffet, Leblanc and Selmer - even Yamaha made some full Boehms), but sadly that is no more. The only companies offering full Boehms are a few Italian makers and Amati - maybe some of the German makers too, but they'll be pretty expensive.
I've seen from an old price list that Leblanc, like Selmer, made full Boehms in sizes other than Bb and A as well as plateaux full Boehms which would no doubt weigh a ton (I wouldn't mind a plateaux full Boehm myself).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2014-11-11 21:05
I was at the local repair tech's shop a couple of weeks ago and I saw a plateau-keyed standard Boehm. Not sure if the clarinet was originally like that or if he had added the plateau keys.
Post Edited (2014-11-11 21:06)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-11-11 22:48
Several companies made plateaux clarinets, most notably Leblanc (including Noblet and Vito) and Malerne. There are some old Italian made ones with pearl finger buttons.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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