 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2014-11-05 06:47
I recently purchased a ridenour 576bc and I've had it for a few months. And I keep getting this on and off sharp ringing noise accompanying my clarion F,F#,G,and G# I also sometimes get it on my low A. I"m using a vandoren 5rv lyre. I've never had this happen on my old clarinet and since all county is 2 days away I think now is a good time to fix this problem
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-11-05 06:52
I would check tightness of the rings (no pun intended). I've had several come loose over the years and fall off... easy to glue (contact cement like used on corks?). I suppose they could vibrate.
Get somebody else to 1) verify they hear the ringing (maybe it's in your head- again I'm serious, not trying to be funny), and 2) if they hear it, touch various places on the clarinet while you are playing and see if it stops- rings, keys, ligature. Kind of like finding an elusive rattle in a car.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2014-11-05 07:08)
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2014-11-05 06:58
I have verified it exists and what do you mean by tightness of the rings?
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-11-05 07:06
2 rings on ends of barrel, 1 on top of bell, 1 on top of bottom joint. Make sure they are solidly glued where they belong. I think that's a long shot at being the problem, but no harm in checking.
There's also a big ring on bottom of bell, check that also.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2014-11-05 07:09)
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2014-11-05 07:19
I checked the rings to the best I could by myself and it appears to not be the problem.
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-11-05 07:24
I suggest you make a recording (video?) demonstrating the issue, and post it here. Somebody will know what it is by the sound. Maybe we'd all call it "ringing", or maybe not.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2014-11-05 07:29
What would the preferred way of posting be? Wouldn't want to get the link removed by GBK
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-11-05 08:05
You can post a link to a YouTube video, lots of those here. If you'd rather not put it on YT but have a hosting home for an MP4 video or MP3 audio (other formats might work also), link to that should also be fine. I think moderators would prefer such links to have a long life to help anyone who reads thread years later, but that's kind of a lost cause. I know mods don't want to provide storage space for video and audio, so no option for those anyway.
Moderator- please correct anything I've misstated. Thanks!
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-11-05 08:54
Check that none of the keys are touching any other keys or pillars by sliding a strip of paper between the gaps and feeling for any resistance:
Check the side and trill keys along their lengths and also check the trill key guide.
Check the arches in the top joint trill keys aren't touching the thumb ring and LH1 ring key overlever.
Check the LH E/B and F#/C# levers for any contact between them and between the side of the E/B lever and the LH F/C lever key barrel.
Check the underside of the low E/B key barrel isn't touching the F#/C# pillar.
Check the linkages on the E/B and F#/C# keys aren't touching the LH F/C lever key barrel.
Also make sure the keywork is well oiled, so add a drop of key oil between the pillars and the ends of key barrels and work the keys to be sure the oil works its way in. If it has an adjustable thumbrest, make sure the locking screw isn't loose. Check any adjusting screws aren't loose. Check around the insides of the ring keys and their respective chimneys to be sure they aren't making contact (although that won't cause any sympathetic resonances as your fingers will dampen that).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2014-11-05 09:01
Also there seems to be a bit of resistance between the upper 2 RH trill and everything else seems to be in order except for the pads seem to be making a sticking noise and maybe the center bridge isn't lined up properly but even when moving it around it's still there. This problem is very weird it comes and goes, at one point i thought I fixed it with my emberchoure but later it came back and same thing with lots of different things.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2014-11-05 09:37
Have you checked that it happens anywhere? Or does it always happen only in one room you practice in, for example?
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-11-05 18:28
Since time is short before your event, let someone else (a pro?) play and see if they detect a problem with your instrument.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2014-11-08 19:32
Check for a torn pad skin. These can cause strange effects. I've had mouthpiece/ reed combinations that produced metallic overtones that vanished when the offending component was removed.
Tony F.
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2014-11-10 04:47
I don't see any torn pads unless i'm looking for the wrong thing. I"m using a 5rv lyre and the type of reed seems not to affect it. Anyone else have the same set up as me ?
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-11-10 05:31
I know Ted Ridenour watches this forum, but maybe he hasn't noticed this thread. If you purchased your clarinet from them (or maybe even if you didn't), it would be worth contacting them for their input. Send them the link to your video clip.
Otherwise, it's probably time for a visit to a local tech for show and tell, or show and play. If it's something minor, I would hope it wouldn't cost you much, maybe nothing.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2014-11-10 05:35
I actually contacted him when I first got it and he basically offered no help asside from saying that if I sent it back he would look at it. And when I say no help I do not mean that he refused to help, he tried, but he couldn't find a solution from the video i provided.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2014-11-10 06:05
I have a 2rv, which is the same as the 5rv, which gives me metallic overtones with some reeds on some clarinets and works perfectly well on others. The effect is consistent and reproducible. It's really a process of elimination. Have you tried another mouthpiece?
Tony F.
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2014-11-10 06:21
Yes i have tried diff mouthpieces but I don't recall what happened and the only other mouthpiece I can try right now is another 5rv lyre, so the set up might be the problem, but the thing is that it is very random not reproducible.
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-11-10 07:34
I had some sharp resonances that I called "rattling my teeth" a couple of years ago with some Legere reeds- in upper clarion, not consistent. I was playing a 2RV either on my Yamaha YCL61 or a Leblanc Dynamic 2, but I blamed the reeds. I wondered if your complaint was something similar, but I never knew if my own resonances were audible to anyone but me.
So- such things happen and I don't know if explainable, you just change things until it goes away. But it is still possible that you have a mechanical problem, like that loose key or ring we all keep asking you about. I still think you heed a 2nd person poking and troubleshooting while you play.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2014-11-13 05:25
So I tried it today with my teachers pyne and the rigning seems to have gone away with both mouthpieces although there is a noise on the low A. My teachers conclusion was that it was just the clarinet adjusting to the new climate although Texas and Florida are not that different it was the only thing she could think of.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2014-11-13 07:26
If it starts to ring again, play double lip to hear whether it stops. Frankly, I didn't hear much on the recording.
Ken Shaw
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2014-11-13 19:13
do you use patches on MPCs? if not try black thick ones. It could be - literally - all in your head; teeth are sensitive and can produce strange effects.
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2014-11-15 02:12
Yes I have a thick black one that is coming off and I need a new one. I also have braces so that could be it, but it is a real noise.
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Author: donald
Date: 2014-11-15 02:38
Hi there, this is a difficult thing to work out over the internet, even with the demo you provided but here is my 10c worth...
1) Loose/broken pad skin BUT this tends to make a buzzing, but not so much a metalic noise... You and your teacher have already checked for this...
2) One of the screws that hold in a "flat spring" is slightly loose- this can make the spring buzz against the key (if it's not held in tightly). I have found this to make an intermittent buzzing (metalic) on my students clarinet several times over the years, and it was an easy fix to tighten the screw (on the underside of the key, holding in the "flat spring") but NOT often easy to find out which one it was that was causing the problem
3) a "needle spring" that is not in its saddle properly can sometimes make a buzz, but this is way less likely that 2) in my experience.
I'd check if the flat springs are all in tightly, and bet $20 this is what is causing the problem (if the buzz is metalic in sound)
dn
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Author: gkern
Date: 2014-11-15 07:10
I get some weird high pitched noises when my bent left index finger does not cover the tone hole completely, and usually only in the clarion register.
Gary K
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2014-11-15 09:10
What flat springs are u referring to? Should I just try and tighten all the screws I find:?
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Author: donald
Date: 2014-11-15 12:19
The side keys that are operated by the right hand index finger all have "flat springs", as does the throat A key and the register key. On most modern clarinets these are the only flat springs unless I've forgotten something... the spring is attached to the key by a little screw (that is usually "under" the key) and it is this screw that I suspect is causing the problem
I HOPE this helps/sorts out the problem- I've been teaching since 1984 and over the years have encountered this about once every couple of years with my students instruments, usually a buzz that only happens at certain pitches and isn't caused by a bad pad can be solved by this.
If I'm not correct and this isn't the problem, sorry about that...
dn
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2014-11-15 17:33
So is there an easy way to get to the springs or do I have to take off the entire piece?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-11-15 19:39
You will have to remove the side and trill keys to check the flat springs - remove the side Eb/Bb key first, then remove the side F# and both trill keys all together (Leblanc/Noblet/Normandy and Howarth S1, S2 and S3 clarinets have separate pillars for both of the trill keys whereas most clarinets will have both the trill keys sharing the same set of pillars - the lower trill key barrel telescopes over the upper trill key barrel).
Refit them in reverse order but make sure both the side F# and trill keys both go on together and are located correctly before putting the rod screws back in so you don't damage anything.
It can be a bit of a bugger to refit them as they all have to go on at the same time, then you have the spring tension trying to push them away while you're fitting the screws.
But once you've got the trill keys screw in and tightened, the F# screw can then go back in (but you'll still have to make sure the F# key barrel is correctly located between the pillars and fight against the spring tension when refitting the screw).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2014-11-19 03:51
Sorry for no updates I don't have a small screwdriver... I'm in the process of acquiring one.
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Author: donald
Date: 2014-11-19 06:42
Good luck- it's a bit epic getting those keys off the first time you do it... it's not rocket science, but it IS fiddly... so if you are not feeling like you are a "handy" person you might want to find a friend who's good at mechanical things to help out. When you put the key back on (after taking them off) make sure the ends of the little flat springs are in the "bed" or "guide" (don't know the proper name) that is provided for them on the body of the instrument. If you don't know what I mean, you'll probably work it out when you take the keys off.
dn
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2014-11-19 07:26
And all I'm doing is tightening the screw connecting the spring right?
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2014-11-19 09:39
locke9342 wrote:
> And all I'm doing is tightening the screw connecting the spring
> right?
you need to make sure it won't get loose again. Put blue Loctite or equivalent
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-11-19 11:55
Donald,
I had never encountered the "loose spring screw buzz" before, but thanks for the heads-up. I won't always default to slapping the student first :-)
Cyclopathic,
I honestly think we offer up advice to use loctite and nail polish too quickly around here. Mostly you run into a spurious issue of a loose part that is FIXED by judicious tightening (always being careful to go snug without OVER tightening). Placing "stuff" on screws and keys just makes it harder to UNDUE a future repair or problem...........in my opinion.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2014-12-05 03:25
I have kept playing for a while now and the noise has just gone away, I have changed almost nothing except my pad on the mouthpiece has come off/loose(I keep sticking it back on). The only thing is now in the low range I can sometimes squeak, but I think that's more of an embouchure thing
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2014-12-20 01:31
UPDATE:
While the ringing noise is not noticeable by people listening it is apparent for those playing it. I took it to a tech and he said it was nothing vibrating and it was an inherent problem with the clarinet. His main theory was that because of the synthetic pads it was creating some sort of weird stuff to happen. I am going to contact ridenour again with this information and see if I can get some input.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2014-12-20 02:58
As this sound is only audible to you, have you considered consulting an audiologist? It's possible that this is an indication of a hearing problem. A friend who plays sax was troubled by a buzz which he could hear only when playing specific notes, which proved to be caused by scar tissue within the ear canal left over from a childhood injury which he had long forgotten. Worth a thought.
Tony F.
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2014-12-20 03:13
I do not mean only I can hear it I mean only the player can hear it. I let the tech play it and he heard it.
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