 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: alexispianokeys
Date: 2014-10-26 20:36
Hi again.i have this question.i need to work on my air support and embouchure.
May closed mouthpieces help me with that?or it's just a reed mouthpiece combination that will help?
I have tried b40,m30lyre and pomarico diamond but I'm not satisfied with any of them so I'm looking for a new start close with hard reed or open with soft??
Or that is a stupid question?im wondering why so many professionals use closed mouthpieces than open.thNk you
buffet rc prestige green line
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Author: nbclarinet
Date: 2014-10-26 21:23
It definitely depends on the mouthpiece-reed combination, however closed mouthpieces have different tendencies than open mouthpieces. Most people tend to gravitate towards one or the other. The M30 and B40 are both fairly open mouthpieces so you've covered that side of the spectrum. I would recommend trying the M15 which is a more closed mouthpiece but not as extreme as the M13 which is vandorens smallest tip opening
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Author: TomS
Date: 2014-10-26 21:26
I like the "hold", warmth and compactness of my Vandoren M13 (not lyre). Try it with a V12 #3.5+ or Legere regular or Quebec cuts #3.25 and #3.5 respectively.
You might find the M13 a bit too close for your taste, therefore a M13-lyre or M15 might be better for you ...
The Reserve X0 and Fobes CF, CF+ have similar tip openings and facing lengths.
If you are doing your part correctly, you can get a BIG sound out of a "closed" mouthpiece.
I don't think a open or closed MP are necessarily better or worse for a weak embouchure ... all facings can give you control problems. It's about developed musculature with proper embouchure formation.
I once thought, back in HS (from total ignorance) that the better the bite, the stronger the embouchure. Nope, it's about strength with finesse. Like comparing a weight lifter to a gymnast.
Tom
Post Edited (2014-10-26 21:31)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-10-27 00:23
If you are interested more in a standard classical clarinet timbre, I'd easily recommend going the smaller tip opening route. They are easier to control. That is, pitch and timbre from note to note and from register to register are easier to maintain.
No mouthpiece will substitute for training (practicing) correctly in the proper production of air or maintaining a good embouchure. Just keep in mind that there is, in my opinion, a minimum amount of air pressure that you need to maintain in your oral cavity to produce a good resonant sound. I draw the analogy to a bicycle inner tube. You get that by actively pushing air out using your core (abdominal muscles).
................Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-10-27 05:33
alexispianokeys wrote:
> I have tried b40,m30lyre and pomarico diamond but I'm not
> satisfied with any of them
Although you kind of glide over part of your post, it may be more central than you realize. Why are you dissatisfied with the three you've listed? What don't they *let you do?*
Or, to go back to the beginning of your post, how do you *want* a mouthpiece to help you "work on [your] air support and embouchure?" What is it that you think a mouthpiece may do to change your way of controlling air or forming your mouth?
It really doesn't matter very much what mouthpiece you choose - I don't have any first-hand experience with the Pomarico, but all three are popular mouthpieces and can produce acceptable results. They need to be matched with a reed that vibrates easily but resists closing. No mouthpiece will make you support more or form a more efficient embouchure. And any mouthpiece with a mismatched reed will prevent you from producing a clean basic sound, so you'll never know if your embouchure is well-formed or not.
So, forget about "Close with hard reed or open with soft," decide on a mouthpiece and then find the strength - by experimenting - that works best for you on it. I suspect you'll probably end up somewhere in the middle of the spectrum of reed strengths no matter what tip opening you end up using. It will be a question of which of 2-1/2, 3 or 3-1/2 works most easily and the brand of reeds you use has some influence over the choice. And then begin working on your embouchure and support without assigning any responsibility for them to the equipment.
Karl
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2014-10-27 05:40
I second reading my website. Assuming the horn is not leaking than it's all a matter of voicing. In short, you need to voice differently than you would on a clarinet. You need to voice lower. If it's a single register instrument it is more difficult generally to obtain a full round tone. Check out my site, I have some good hints.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: alexispianokeys
Date: 2014-10-27 14:26
you are all guys the best thank for so many good answers.
I'll try some m15s if i find the way to do it here in Greece!
I have 2 additional questions for you.
What exactly should I wait to notice on a mouthpiece and what on a reed?articulation etc.
Second. How fobes' cf could feel the same as M15 considering 0.96 and 103.5 tip openings difference
buffet rc prestige green line
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-10-27 16:43
alexispianokeys wrote:
> Second. How fobes' cf could feel the same as M15 considering
> 0.96 and 103.5 tip openings difference
>
Do they?
Karl
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-10-27 20:46
I like and respect Clark and his mouthpieces. Maybe with the right reed....
Karl
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Author: TomS
Date: 2014-10-28 05:34
Clark Fobes says to subtract "5" from Vandoren's published tip openings specifications. Therefore, for example, a Vandoren MP with a tip opening of 1.01 mm would compare to a Fobes CF with a tip opening of 0.96 mm.
So, I don't think you can compare without doing some arithmetic.
Of course, there is some tolerance of facings ... I suspect that the tip opening vary by +/- .020 mm, easily.
And, of course, many more factors that contribute to the MP "feel".
David Hite once told me that the Vandoren MPs have what he called an "arched" tip rail. That is, the opening continues to increase in a more aggressive way from the corners of the tip rail (where the side and tip rails meet) to the tip of the tip rail. He claimed that this could give a more powerful sound. This was because of the way the facing machine at Vandoren worked, not sure if this was an intentional part of the MP design.
Also, I don't know if Mr. Fobes and Vandoren have a concavity or "French dip" cut in their reed tables. I know the Hite MPs did.
Tom
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