 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Halo1115
Date: 2014-08-25 03:50
I have a Buffet R13 that I inherited from my grandpa, and this being my senior year in high school, I wanted to use it in my last performance, grand nationals in Indianapolis in November.
I know that the arena itself is a great temperature for the R13 (being Lucas oil stadium) but the outside temperature might not agree with the clarinet..
The only issue, is that the interior is dry, and with the cold weather, might crack.
I'm wondering if there is any way that I could, at the very least, reduce the risk of it cracking and becoming completely useless (if I'm completely wrong about the becoming useless part, please let me know nicely..)
I HAVE A VITO AND JUPITER THAT I USE TO MARCH ON EVERY OTHER OCCASION. THIS WOULD BE MY VERY LAST SHOW IN HIGH SCHOOL AND I WOULD LIKE TO USE THE WOODEN ONE FOR THE SHOW.
Any help is appreciated. Thank you
Post Edited (2014-08-28 02:38)
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Author: pewd
Date: 2014-08-25 05:38
Is this outdoors? I recommend you don't take a wood R13 outside.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Halo1115
Date: 2014-08-25 06:09
It would be indoors for the performance, however I would be putting it together outside..
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2014-08-25 06:19
Just wait until you get indoors to put the clarinet together. Then hug it under your jacket under your arm (without the mouthpiece or reed) to warm it up.
Ken Shaw
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Author: pewd
Date: 2014-08-25 06:20
Marching? I wouldn't.
I posted a picture of a snapped in 1/2 R13 a few weeks ago...
Y'all be careful out there.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2014-08-25 06:20
If it came from your grandpa, it has probably been around for awhile. Make sure the bore is adequately oiled. Put a piece of waxed paper under each pad that is normally closed to protect it. Apply a light coating of high quality bore oil to the bore and sockets (almond oil, Bore Doctor, etc.). Let it sit for 24 hours and repeat. Continue the repetition until there is a coating of oil remaining on the bore surface after 24 hours. Use a clean swab to remove the excess oil. Remove the waxed paper pieces. When you get in the arena, allow as much time as possible for it to reach ambient temperature (assuming you are indoors) before you open the case. If necessary, wrap your hands around the instrument to warm it after you take it out of the case. If it gets cold, do everything you can to gently warm it (inside jacket for example) before you start blowing warm air through it.
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Author: derf5585
Date: 2014-08-25 06:45
Someone should invent a battery powered clarinet case that maintains the proper temp and humidity.
fsbsde@yahoo.com
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Author: kdk
Date: 2014-08-25 08:44
derf5585 wrote:
> Someone should invent a battery powered clarinet case that
> maintains the proper temp and humidity.
>
Well, it doesn't matter much what the external conditions are like while the instrument is in its case. Unpacking it outside isn't ideal, and I would try to talk whoever is in charge into letting me keep the clarinet in its closed case until I got inside the building. But the important thing is that it's warm when you start to play it. You shouldn't get into serious trouble with it if you make sure to warm it under your arm or inside a jacket before you blow warm air into it to play. The main danger of cracking comes from the sudden expansion of the wood that can result from blowing warm breath into a cold wood clarinet.
Karl
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Author: Halo1115
Date: 2014-08-25 10:34
I'm in a marching band, so some of the things don't necessarily make sense. We put our instruments together outside, and then walk inside.
I'm wearing a pair of overalls (bib) and a jacket (that barely passes my chest, and is practically skin tight.)
I tried posting pics but it wouldn't work.
And would the cold itself be an issue, or more so the cold to hot to cold mix?
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2014-08-25 12:42
Do yourself a favour and get a decent plastic clarinet - Vito and Bundy are great choices and can often be had for less than a pack of good reeds.
Not only is there the risk of cracking due to adverse weather conditions, but also to have an accident while marching. An R13 is too precious to be used in an environment like that.
--
Ben
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-08-25 13:04
The situation as described is almost the worst possible scenario. You'd be standing out in (most likely) frigid, windy conditions until you guys march in and play. So what will happen is that the body and keys of the clarinet will cool down drastically. You get inside and immediately start blowing 97 degree fahrenheit temperature air down the bore...... a recipe for a disastrous crack.
My war story: I was with a band doing a concert in the middle of Winter somewhere in New England in a school gymnasium. We were set up just feet from the service doors (easy load and unload) which were inexplicably opened full within moments of finishing. A bone chilling 20 degree wind just whipped across the band and the clarinet on a stand closest to the door made this hideous popping noise. There was a massive, unrepairable crack down the top joint that has made me fear cold temperatures ever since!
................Paul Aviles
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Author: Halo1115
Date: 2014-08-26 02:51
To clarify: I do have a plastic vito that I use for all other marching events. This is just the last one I would do, and would like to use it.
And what I've heard so far, is extreme oiling may work
BUT, more than likely it will crack.
And temp wise the past two years we went: year one, it snowed for 1 hour, and stuck for 2 before melting.
Year 2: no snow, just cold as heck.
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2014-08-26 04:11
What I described is not "extreme oiling". All it is doing is replacing oil that was in the wood when the instrument was new (at least on the inside of the bore). Any less oil will leave the wood in a condition that it is able to absorb water from the bore. As you can read above, water in the wood can lead to problems. Once you get it properly oiled, it is relatively easy to keep it that way with a routine light oiling. The reason it may sound like "extreme oiling" is based on the assumption that, being an older instrument, there is a reasonable probability that the instrument has not been kept properly oiled. Oiling a clarinet on a complete overhaul involves submerging the wooden parts in oil under pressure. That will put considerably more oil into the wood than I have suggested.
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Author: Halo1115
Date: 2014-08-26 06:58
Lol, no offense meant barthx. By "extreme oiling" I meant oiling it over a long period of time to refresh it. And I actually had it overhauled, but it still was completely dry.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-08-26 07:11
Yeah, if the clarinet has sentimental value.......don't do it.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: William
Date: 2014-08-26 18:40
Your grandfathers R13?? I would guess that if it hasn't cracked by now, it most likely will not if used in Lucas Stadium, regardless the outside temp. Just don't subject it to a drastic temp. change--ex. warm from just playing a concert to immediately taking it into freezing temps outside, or the opposite, in-the-case cold to rapid assembly and immediate performance. My R13, which I played in college during the 1960's here in Wisconsin, was subjected to the temp changes of going from a two and one-half hour Concert Band rehearsal to an immediate fifteen minute walk to my dorm room in a snow storm, many times......AND NEVER CRACKED. It is still in use as my "jazz" clarinet and is in perfect condition. I think that I got lucky and have purchased pro line clarinets that were made from great pieces of wood without underlying flaws that tend to crack. None of my twelve wood clarinets--effer, sopranos or low C bass have ever cracked--and did I mention I live in WISCONSIN where temps vary from 80+ in summer to 30- in the winter months--often colder than Fairbanks, Alaska.
OK, bottom line: if you give your grandfathers clarinet a little chance to warm up or cool down before and after playing, you will most likely be safe. And, if the worst happens and it does crack, they can be sealed by a professional instrument repair tech and play just as good as before. Lastly, I promise, have a lot of fun playing your grampa's Buffet--he chose a great clarinet and you are lucky to have it to use.
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2014-08-27 02:53
Paul:
I started playing the clarinet in 1952. A scan of recent posts will show that there are many opinions relative to cracking and what should be done about it. I have no desire to extend that further. However, I have always used wooden clarinets and have used them in all conditions from marching in snow storms to concerts in concert halls to marching at 100+ F in direct sun. I still have every clarinet I have used with the newest being from the late 1960s. My oiling technique came from professional repair text books and I have never had ANY problem with wood cracking. In fact, one that had several small cracks when I acquired it no longer has any detectable evidence of cracking after having only my normal maintenance over a period of years. With that experience, I will continue using my maintenance approach and, if someone asks me what to do to avoid cracking, will give them my routine. If your method works equally well for you, I have no intention of trying to change change your mind. We use what works for us.
On the other hand, if your most recent post is actually referring back to the top of the list of posts, I apologize for misunderstanding your reference.
Halo1115:
A well oiled clarinet is NOT oily to the touch. I only know of two ways that an average person can tell the amount of oil in the instrument's wood in the absence of specialized tools. 1. Some instruments will take on a dull and somewhat grey color when they are low on oil. 2. Your instrument is low on oil if bore oil applied to the surface soaks into the wood. If oil remains on the surface, it should be gently wiped clean and dry. A well maintained bore should look smooth and shiny. My Kohlert is about 80 years old and the bore is still smooth and shiny. In the process of curing, wood loses the vast majority of liquid within its cells (depending on humidity) leaving only the cell walls. When the wood in a clarinet is oiled, the oil migrates into the empty wood cells and, in doing so, increases the dimensional stability of the wood and excludes the intrusion of moisture. There is no purpose for oil on the outside surface of the wood, so the surface would be dry to the touch. I have no idea if some manufacturers have developed treatments that reduce the need for oil on their newest instruments, but you indicated that yours is older. I work almost exclusively with older instruments.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2014-08-27 05:44
NEVER use a good, pro-grade wooden instrument to march. It's just a disaster waiting to happen. Get a decent, used plastic horn. Vito, Bundy, etc. come to mind. You will never forgiver yourself if you destroy a great clarinet by marching with it. Nobody will notice what instrument you are playing in a marching band, in any case.
You can find used instruments practically for the asking. Half the opeople I know have an old plastic hoirn lying around in a closet.
I gave my daughter my 1971 vintage R13 years ago, with the condition that she NEVER march with it. We found someone nearby who gave us a Bundy for free. It cost me $5 to have a screw or two replaced. Pads were fine. I probably sank less than $50 worth of maintenance into it during the 4 years she was marching. It cost a lot more for repadding the Buffet every few years. She just upgraded to a new R13 Bb this year. The old one took her from 9th grade,through high school,undergrad, and first year of her master's program.. She also has a newer R13 A and my Yamaha 681 Eefer.
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2014-08-28 00:13
Clarinets made of synthetic materials are cheap and easy to find today. However, when I last marched (1968) they were few and far between. While, at that time, there were a few available, I had no clue they existed let alone where to find one. At that time, every clarinetist I knew marched with a wooden instrument. We all kept our instruments adequately oiled, avoided rapid temperature changes, and none of us ever had a cracking problem. Most of us felt lucky to own one instrument. I was fortunate to have had a band director in high school who required each of us to research and write essays on care, maintenance, and repair of our own instruments. In college, I handled the instrument repair room.
Before someone asks "What kind of music major has only one instrument?". . . .
Where I went to college, we had neither a music major nor a music minor. We were just happy to have a music department where we could play under a band director who studied under Revelli. On the other hand, we had a good enough band that we got invited to travel the country (and later the world) to play concerts. The school was eventually forced to add a variety of music majors to match the level of performance.
Post Edited (2014-08-28 01:28)
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Author: Halo1115
Date: 2014-08-28 02:35
JJAlbretcht: if you actually read through the all the posts, I'm sure I've stated at least once that I have a plastic clarinet that I usually march on....
BartHx: so should I have a professional look at it and give me his opinion??
And thank you for sharing your marching experience with a wooden clarinet to show that a well maintained wooden clarinet won't crack. On mine I know how to clean it and that's about it. I know to oil it, but I don't know how much, and I can't afford a good repair lot for anything else.
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2014-08-28 08:13
I would not say that a well maintained wooden clarinet will definitely not crack if used for marching. I would only say that it is far less likely to do so. I marched with a wooden clarinet because it was the only thing available to me, so I did everything available to me (as did everyone else around me) to minimize the chance for damage. As it turned out, it worked for all of us. There were metal clarinets available, but every one I knew of was in a beginners' rental fleet. If I were in the same situation today, I would march with a plastic instrument. My point was that you can greatly reduce the chances of having a problem if you follow an appropriate maintenance routine. I don't know very many people who have a pressure tank filled with bore oil, so the way I know when I have oiled my instrument enough is to keep oiling it until the oil no longer soaks in and then completely wipe off the surplus. I don't treat the outside of the instrument as often as I do the bore (only about once per year). For that, I strip it down completely and apply the oil after making sure the wood is completely clean. With the pads out of the way, you can completely oil the tone holes, too. When the absorption slows significantly, I will typically finish off the outside with something like the wax offered by The Doctor's Products. That will give a more durable finish but is probably not appropriate for the bore or tone holes. At the same time, that gives me a chance to closely inspect pads and springs and do any minor key polishing or adjustment I feel like doing. I do carry a back up instrument in my gig bag but, so far, the only time I have needed it has been as a loaner when someone else has had a problem. I have been known to do repairs for someone else during a concert intermission.
Since you just had your R13 overhauled, I would check with the shop and see if they included a complete re-oiling in the process.
Given that your instrument 1. has sentimental value and 2. is one you want to use for this particular performance, I would suggest that you take all the information that has been given in this thread and give some serious thought to just how much risk you are willing to take. Wood is not an inert material, so nothing comes with a guarantee. You could possibly leave the R13 at home and have it crack in the case while you are doing the performance on a different instrument (unlikely, but not impossible). After some sixty-two years, I have never had a wooden clarinet crack while in my care, but that doesn't guarantee that it won't happen tomorrow.
Whatever you decide, have a good time at your performance. In the long view, that's really what it's all about.
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